Very expensive knives.
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I enjoyed reading some interesting views and comments on this thread.
I confess I mostly get annoyed by the status thing....kind of like with cars. I own this brand, so I'm more important than you are mentality....And you're beneath me, so I'm not bothering to acknowledge you.
I grew up in the South American rainforest, with natives who survived very comfortably with cheap trade knives and machetes. And they survived quite skillfully for hundreds of years before that with stone and wood alone. To be honest, I don't think they'd even be happy to get a Ray Mears knife. It would be too hard to sharpen and would seem very much on the clunky side.
What turns my crank is using knives I made myself, with simple hand tools, out of materials I scavenged for free. I carve a lot, and my self-made knives serve me most satisfactorily, much of that satisfaction coming from the fact that I made them myself, the rest from their good (in my opinion) performance.
I confess I mostly get annoyed by the status thing....kind of like with cars. I own this brand, so I'm more important than you are mentality....And you're beneath me, so I'm not bothering to acknowledge you.
I grew up in the South American rainforest, with natives who survived very comfortably with cheap trade knives and machetes. And they survived quite skillfully for hundreds of years before that with stone and wood alone. To be honest, I don't think they'd even be happy to get a Ray Mears knife. It would be too hard to sharpen and would seem very much on the clunky side.
What turns my crank is using knives I made myself, with simple hand tools, out of materials I scavenged for free. I carve a lot, and my self-made knives serve me most satisfactorily, much of that satisfaction coming from the fact that I made them myself, the rest from their good (in my opinion) performance.
Seriously ,?!
so you are right enjoying what you do , rain forest ,carving and "what turns your crank" is using knives you have made.
and yet others who are not as good at that maybe but enjoy being able to purchase "a name" on a knife that( turns their crank) mostly annoys you...?!
Interesting....
so you are right enjoying what you do , rain forest ,carving and "what turns your crank" is using knives you have made.
and yet others who are not as good at that maybe but enjoy being able to purchase "a name" on a knife that( turns their crank) mostly annoys you...?!
Interesting....
Any item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If you aren't willing to pay that much for a knife then so be it.
When buying knives people will look at a number of things and these are factors effecting their idea of worth. Design, is it aesthetically pleasing, does it or will it do a specific job. Will it perform the task that it's being bought for. What are the materials in use and what are the pro's and con's of such materials. Can I maintain the tool. Can I trust the manufacturer or maker.
So the woodlore knife, it looks quite nice, it can be used for many differing tasks, it'll do the job we've all seen Ray using it for years. Maple and O1 are good enough materials and they are easy enough to maintain and if you're not sure you can get a video of Ray teaching people to maintain it. The manufacturer is a craftsman, a well known and respected knife maker. The leatherwork isn't elaborate, but it's plain. It's hard to make plain look good, it means that the eye picks up on little mistakes and on the whole you won't find them on a handcrafted woodlore sheath.
So Allan Wood has to cover his costs, materials, the cost of sales, tax and take into account his time to make a profit. It has to have a sheath made and the leatherworkers costs and time have to be accounted for. Then Ray buys it from Allan, so he now has cost of sales and he has to cover tax as well. He then needs to make a profit, it doesn't take long before the prices get higher and higher.
That's the problem with anything that's resold, invariably the price to the end user will be 80% higher than the cost that the reseller bought the item in for, he has to do this to make a profit. You could probably go direct to Allan and ask him to make a knife for £240 and you'd get one hell of a knife, it just wouldn't have been sold to you by Woodlore or have Ray's name on it.
Are any custom knives worth the money, obviously they are to some people because people are paying the money for them. Are they going to use them, well that's totally their own decision as well, they've paid the money for it and they can do with it as they so desire and neither you nor I have the right to tell them or suggest to them otherwise.
When buying knives people will look at a number of things and these are factors effecting their idea of worth. Design, is it aesthetically pleasing, does it or will it do a specific job. Will it perform the task that it's being bought for. What are the materials in use and what are the pro's and con's of such materials. Can I maintain the tool. Can I trust the manufacturer or maker.
So the woodlore knife, it looks quite nice, it can be used for many differing tasks, it'll do the job we've all seen Ray using it for years. Maple and O1 are good enough materials and they are easy enough to maintain and if you're not sure you can get a video of Ray teaching people to maintain it. The manufacturer is a craftsman, a well known and respected knife maker. The leatherwork isn't elaborate, but it's plain. It's hard to make plain look good, it means that the eye picks up on little mistakes and on the whole you won't find them on a handcrafted woodlore sheath.
So Allan Wood has to cover his costs, materials, the cost of sales, tax and take into account his time to make a profit. It has to have a sheath made and the leatherworkers costs and time have to be accounted for. Then Ray buys it from Allan, so he now has cost of sales and he has to cover tax as well. He then needs to make a profit, it doesn't take long before the prices get higher and higher.
That's the problem with anything that's resold, invariably the price to the end user will be 80% higher than the cost that the reseller bought the item in for, he has to do this to make a profit. You could probably go direct to Allan and ask him to make a knife for £240 and you'd get one hell of a knife, it just wouldn't have been sold to you by Woodlore or have Ray's name on it.
Are any custom knives worth the money, obviously they are to some people because people are paying the money for them. Are they going to use them, well that's totally their own decision as well, they've paid the money for it and they can do with it as they so desire and neither you nor I have the right to tell them or suggest to them otherwise.
totally agree with you, I prob have recently paid the top price ever for a AW/RM woodlore knife, does that make me think i am better than anyone Nooooooo]
Would anyone even know or care,
I chose to spend my dosh on this knife that I wanted and could not find so had to pay the premium, will i use it YES will i use it to the ength degree not in the least. Do i buy 60 cigs a day no do i buy a bottle of Gin a day (not yet) do i vote green party (NOT YET<!).
So all the dissing ref knives cars and so on.
If these same people (who love there knives were offered the afore mentioned they would bite your hand off, if they were offered a fancy Aston instead of their Ford Fiesta (i love them), they would bite your hand off (if they really liked cars) , just saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,well stepping off the soap box now and feel much better....
Substitute the word "shotgun" for the word "knife." Exactly the same discussion.
I peaked out at 12 from 6 countries. Only 2 remain, both Russian, a 12 and a 20.
Not counting the wood carving crooked knives, I've lost more knives than I now own.
Is the knife useful or is it a P.O.S.? Do you simply enjoy using it?
I peaked out at 12 from 6 countries. Only 2 remain, both Russian, a 12 and a 20.
Not counting the wood carving crooked knives, I've lost more knives than I now own.
Is the knife useful or is it a P.O.S.? Do you simply enjoy using it?
Terry, not sure if you actually read my post. You completely misinterpreted/misread/misrepresented what I said. I'm fine with people buying knives. They're free to spend what they want on them. I understand not everyone has the desire/skill/time/resources to make their own. I said what annoys me is the status game people play, looking down on others because they don't own/use a ______ brand, made by ______ (big name), out of _______ (high tech steel), etc. It's the superior attitude you find in many that annoys me.
Yes, but you'll get that in all walks of life, be IT with people using iPad's against android versions or be it someone using a Frosts River or Duluth pack over a pack by highlander. That's in people's nature to do the "Look at Me" thing.
In the end it's not what you've got it's what you do with it. I and many others on this forum have seen Mors Kochanski using a custom knife one minute and then using a cheap little Erickson or Frost Mora the next, just as capable with any. Using a survival scarf and a packframe instead of a bergan.
A lot of those same people that have all of the kit would trade it for the ability and skill that many of the people on this forum have, yes they have the gear, but they don't just covet kit, they covet the ability to use it as well.
Well said. In my post above I referred to cars, so yes, it is a problem in all areas of life. While it may be part of our "nature," I believe it's something we should fight against. I think about the many places I've worked. The places I've disliked the most were ones where favoritism, cliques, and status were the modus operandi. The places I liked most were ones where we each had our own perspectives, but we respected each other and were interested in each other's points of view.
Not knives specifically, but I would rather pay more for something of equal or better quality if it was made by an artisan rather than an industrial import.
I am prepared to pay a certain percentage of my disposable income on these type of things, some people earn more than me so even at the same percentage its a lot more money.
I likely spend more on tools (for my work) than most people do but less on cars. I obviously care more about my tools than the vehicle I carry them about in.
Its just that everyone has their priorities set to differing levels, not really a problem unless you have expensive peepers and a paupers wallet. In which case, "Its so unfair..."
Or, the short version is "Meh".
I likely spend more on tools (for my work) than most people do but less on cars. I obviously care more about my tools than the vehicle I carry them about in.
Its just that everyone has their priorities set to differing levels, not really a problem unless you have expensive peepers and a paupers wallet. In which case, "Its so unfair..."
Or, the short version is "Meh".
I blame the confusing O.P
Which part did you find confusing? I thought I had it summed up in the last sentence.
" Please don't get me wrong, if you can afford it and want one of the knives, then fair enough, it is your choice, and I'm not criticising you, but please don't say how good a tool it is, unless you have actually used it."
I understand that a makers name can carry certain weight, but even a good tool can be useless in the hands of someone it doesn't suit. Point made clearly here in post 38.
"Over the years, I have been beguiled by the looks of a number of knives. I have bought them, awaited their arrival with keen anticipation and then used them. More often than not, I have sold them on for annoyingly less than I paid for them. Why? Well, it varies: blade shape, handle size and shape, the 'feel' of it in the hand and when working with it - and a host of other little, personal niggles and opinions.
Although some were expensive, all of them were used and given, if you like, a fair trial. I always seem to come back to my preferred ones though for reasons I can't rightly explain but I reckon familiarity is in amongst them.
Have they been worth it? Yes. Although out of pocket on the deals, I have learned a lot about what I like and expect from a knife; the sadness - an understandable one, really - is that I have had to go through the process of buying them to try them before selling them on. The ones I come back to as my main users are ones I would never sell. I'm happy with them because they fit and are comfortable in my (much-operated-on) hand. For that, and that alone, I remain happy to have paid more than the price of a Mora for them."
I only meant my last post in a lighthearted, nudge to the shoulder type way
So i hope i'v not offended. And seriously dont want any "cross words" with anyone. I'v had a go at answering your question below. Excuse the use of CAPS i'm not shouting, just couldn't find the colour pallete
the main thrust of the post seemed to be that you cant judge a knife without actually using it. I disagre with that and it seems so do you with your woodlore clone. So that kind of cancelled out the main point you were trying to make. I read the post and came away confused mate thats all
......adam
So i hope i'v not offended. And seriously dont want any "cross words" with anyone. I'v had a go at answering your question below. Excuse the use of CAPS i'm not shouting, just couldn't find the colour pallete
the main thrust of the post seemed to be that you cant judge a knife without actually using it. I disagre with that and it seems so do you with your woodlore clone. So that kind of cancelled out the main point you were trying to make. I read the post and came away confused mate thats all
......adam
Geez is this thread still going? Oh my.
I'm going to go ahead and drop a hashtag bomb.
#non-issue.
Andy.
I'm going to go ahead and drop a hashtag bomb.
#non-issue.
Andy.
Its made interesting reading though
I bought a Morakniv today, £12. It's a functional knife with a solid case. But.. and I say this while pointing out I may have had one bourbon too many... last night I was seriously considering a damascus blade up for sale on here. Why? I needed a knife and that blade is just a work of art and it would give me pleasure just looking at it, let alone using it.
Obviously I have gone for the cheaper alternative, but my reasoning was that I wouldn't want to waste a beautiful knife that someone else would probably make much more use of and perhaps one day, when I'm more experienced and feel I've 'earned' it (and I realise that may sound very daft) I may just buy a knife that nice to use on my trips out.
When it comes to the prices of knives, I smoke more cigarettes in a month than the cost of the most expensive knife I've drooled over so far. If I really really want it, I have to lay off the pipe for a month and that beauty will be mine
I bought a Morakniv today, £12. It's a functional knife with a solid case. But.. and I say this while pointing out I may have had one bourbon too many... last night I was seriously considering a damascus blade up for sale on here. Why? I needed a knife and that blade is just a work of art and it would give me pleasure just looking at it, let alone using it.
Obviously I have gone for the cheaper alternative, but my reasoning was that I wouldn't want to waste a beautiful knife that someone else would probably make much more use of and perhaps one day, when I'm more experienced and feel I've 'earned' it (and I realise that may sound very daft) I may just buy a knife that nice to use on my trips out.
When it comes to the prices of knives, I smoke more cigarettes in a month than the cost of the most expensive knife I've drooled over so far. If I really really want it, I have to lay off the pipe for a month and that beauty will be mine
Pah! That newfangled steel......anyone who doesn't knapp their own blade from a Flint is a snob in my book! I find my Flint knife cuts my Fillet Steak and Lobster Tails with the least damage to the tissue making for a first class slice!
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