Veg oil Diesel mix???

[mike68]

Can anyone help please?
My wife has a Td4 freelander and my dad has a 2.8 K reg Shogun.
Question. Can you run them on a veg oil/diesel mix without altering the engines?
If so what are the best mixes?
Are the miles per gallon/performance affected?
If this is the wrong forum for this please feel free to point me in the right direction.
Yours
Mike68.

 

[wingstoo]

Hi Mike,

Try http://www.itsnoteasybeinggreen.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=26

Lots of real good info on there.

LS

 

[Goose]

It should be possible, it will depend on your type of fuel pump, there have been a few discussions about this in the past and I know there are a couple of people who use biodiesel or veg oil mix on the forum who will have a lot more knowledge than me about the subject.
Here is a link to one of the discussions with a link to another site, http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18409&highlight=biodiesel .

 

[EdS]

Freelander - no, no, no. Unless you put a twin tank and preheater system in. Its a direct injection common rail diesel. The veg oil will be too thick if it isn't preheated. Common rails do not like veg oil - new the diesel engine worse they are for veg oil. PIA as the orginal was designed to run on groundnut (peanut) oil.

Plus been a LR it'll have a Lucas injector pump - the "groving" it too fine to allow veg oil in to lub it.

The shogun should be ok, but thin with 5-10% petrol and add some veggieboost.

And you still have to register with HMCR - but less than 2500l p.a. you don't pay duty now.

All the info you could want:

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

 

[mike68]

Many thanks was toying with filling up the freelander with a 70/30 mix of diesel/veg oil.
So should I tell my dad to go ahead with his Shogun.
Mike68

 

[Spacemonkey]

I run my 2.8TD 93 Pajero (Shogun in a kimono) on 60/40 diesel/veg oil mix and it's fine.
I buy my veg oil from Tesco (KTC veg oil 15L drums at £8.20- roughly 52p a litre or so) and add .75 litre white spirit and leave to react for 5 days. This thins the veg oil to only 6% thicker than diesel fuel so no modifications required at all, and it might even run in the TD4. Investigate further before doing so though. The Paj 2.8TDs are a bit fickle. Some run happily on 50/50 mix, some prefer 70/30 (without thinning). You have to suck it and see.. I don't always thin the veg oil with white spirit and it runs just fine. Starts smoother with thinned oil though.I usually give it a couple of glow plug clickes before firing up.

Check out this section for further Pajero/Shogun veg oil advise:

http://www.pocuk.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=77

From what I remember, someone on another forum with the equipment tested the viscosity of veg oil and found it about 260% thicker than diesel, but only about 25% thicker when mixed with diesel, and 6% when thinnned with white spirits. This is a chemcial reaction that takes about 4-5 days to complete, then add to tank. White spirit does not harm the engine, although 'technically' you would be modifying the veg oil and so should pay duty on the oil used... It's interesting to note that white spirit supposedly does not contain fuel markers though.

After running a few tankfuls of veg oil mix, you should replace the fuel filter as the veg oil cleans out the tank and lines and so fills the filter with crud depending on how dirty the lines/tank was.

 

[EdS]

1) please do not use veg oil in a TD4 with out a proper twin tank and preheater system. You WILL kill the engine.

2) Spacemonkey - don't use white spirit it'll damage the engine as it nasty stuff when in burns. Use petrol instead for a number of reasons:

a - its road legal, HMCR will not approve white spirit (they will do you, when, not if, they pull you).

b- 10% pertol will thin veg oil to 50% of its orginal viscosity. White spirit will not. Don't forget the veg oil might be thinned with 6% of diesel but your diesel is now thicker. Engine only have a limited tolerance for fuel viscousity.

c - its cheaper per litre.

d - the combustion products of white spirits can contain acid by products. Remember white spirit is not a clean solvent it is a mixuter of what is left after cracking.

The solvent used to thin the veg oil does not cause any chemical reaction, it is purely physical related to the way the molecules are "packed" and resist shear

 

[Tourist]

Why don't you go the full transesterferication route and produce bio-diesel. It sounds like as much work as you are doing now.

 

[thingswelike]

Hi all
I'm currently running 20% Veg 80% Diesel in my Mazda Bongo, and I'm considering a two-tank conversion to run on 100%.
But I was under the impression that I didn't have to register with HMRC. As I understand it, previously registered small producers (2500 litres a year or less) have already been deregitered by HMRC as the whole point is to avoid admin on their side.

2500 litres per year would be about double my usual requirements, so I'm nice and safely under.

 

[EdS]

below 2500l you still have to register but you don't not pay duty and therefore no monthly returns. These formed the bulk of the paper work.

 

[thingswelike]

below 2500l you still have to register but you don't not pay duty and therefore no monthly returns. These formed the bulk of the paper work.

I see - thanks for the clarification - I'll contact them.

 

[EdS]

the folks that deal with oil & fuel duty at HMCR are very helpful - they give you a straight answer.

 

[thingswelike]

Hi Ed
I've just been onto the HMRC national advice line and they've assured me that I don't have to register although I should keep simple records.
They are sending me confirmation in writing.

 

[EdS]

chanced their mind again then. They sent me a letter asking if I still wanted to be a producer and if so would it be less than 2500l.

 

[MikeS]

I am in the process of trying veg oil / diesel in my 1999 L200. I am not doing anything to it just adding it to the tank. I have started with 1litre per tank and aim to slowly increase to 3 / 4 litres. Does anyone have any thoughts, comments or advise ?

Mike

 

[Rebel]

I don't know about your particular brand of diesel engine but I ran mine on around a 10-20% vegetable oil mix without any problems. In the winter I used a lower mix because of the cold weather thickening the fuel.

I had a 2.5 litre turbo diesel Ford Transit with a Lucas engine management system. I just poured the veggie oil straight into the tank with the fossil fuel.

When I say "had" a Ford Transit the engine didn't ever breakdown, somebody set it on fire and it was written off.

 

[madrussian]

There was an episode of Myth Busters on Discovery channel in the states. I don't know if ya'll have the same program in the UK, but they did an experiment with running a diesel Mercedez Benz on pure veg oil. The vehicle ran just fine. The only noticable difference was that it got a couple of mile to the gallon less then regular diesel. At least thats what I remember. You should be able to do a search on the Discovery channels website.

 

[demographic]

I don't know about your particular brand of diesel engine but I ran mine on around a 10-20% vegetable oil mix without any problems. In the winter I used a lower mix because of the cold weather thickening the fuel.

I had a 2.5 litre turbo diesel Ford Transit with a Lucas engine management system. I just poured the veggie oil straight into the tank with the fossil fuel.

When I say "had" a Ford Transit the engine didn't ever breakdown, somebody set it on fire and it was written off.

Mmmmm, my Transit is getting on a bit now, not much to lose even if it does harm it and its got a Bosch fuel pump.

Might give it a go.

 

[mag888]

Been running 100% veg oil in my surf since they changed the requirement to register (begining of july)no modifications dont mix it with anything just buy the 15l drums from tesco (just gone up to to £9 odd) and just pour it straight in never misses a beat. only when i cant get enough used oil from the canteen at work though, let it settle for three weeks pump it through filters down to 5micron and pour it in. even cheaper than tesco's and quite satisfying knowing that they're covering my fuel costs. works out to a sneaky pay rise. hehe .

just like someone else already said dont use veg oil in any direct injection engine i.e. freelander without full two tank conversion, will turn out very expensive when the engine's distroyed.

 

[MikeS]

There was an episode of Myth Busters on Discovery channel in the states. I don't know if ya'll have the same program in the UK, but they did an experiment with running a diesel Mercedez Benz on pure veg oil. The vehicle ran just fine. The only noticable difference was that it got a couple of mile to the gallon less then regular diesel. At least thats what I remember. You should be able to do a search on the Discovery channels website.

5th Gear did the same and worked OK.