There's no reason we can't be civilised

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John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,136
2,874
66
Pembrokeshire
As a pedant, I would like to point out that "civilized" means belonging to the city....
I never want to be civilized but like the idea of my brew kit being handy like that!
 

Tiley

Life Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,364
375
60
Gloucestershire
But a pedant would know that it is the literal and original meaning...

The Chambers Dictionary of Etymology offers this:

civilize v. make civil, refine, polish. 1601, apparently borrowed from French 'civiliser'... It is possible that the Old French word was based upon Medieval Latin 'civilizare' - to consider a criminal action as a civil matter.

Then, just above it, the same tome suggests:

civil adj. Before 1387, in Trevisa's translation of Higden's "Polychronicon"; borrowed through Old French 'civil', and directly as a learned borrowing from Latin 'civilis' of or proper to a citizen, relating to private rights, state law, and public life, urbane in manner.

Although coming from 'civis' - citizen, which, in turn derived originally from association with the city, the meaning expanded to cover both state and territory.

Perhaps more intriguing, though totally unrelated, is the word that follows: clabber, meaning thick sour milk, from the Garlic 'clabar', meaning mud.

Gentlemen, I'm sorry: it has been a long day and, sadly for you, I found I had a little time on my hands...
 

Nohoval_Turrets

Full Member
Sep 28, 2004
348
10
52
Ireland
The Chambers Dictionary of Etymology offers this:
Perhaps more intriguing, though totally unrelated, is the word that follows: clabber, meaning thick sour milk, from the Garlic 'clabar', meaning mud.

Must learn to speak Garlic...

The word is 'clábar', pronounced claw-ber.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,136
2,874
66
Pembrokeshire
The Chambers Dictionary of Etymology offers this:

civilize v. make civil, refine, polish. 1601, apparently borrowed from French 'civiliser'... It is possible that the Old French word was based upon Medieval Latin 'civilizare' - to consider a criminal action as a civil matter.

Then, just above it, the same tome suggests:

civil adj. Before 1387, in Trevisa's translation of Higden's "Polychronicon"; borrowed through Old French 'civil', and directly as a learned borrowing from Latin 'civilis' of or proper to a citizen, relating to private rights, state law, and public life, urbane in manner.

Although coming from 'civis' - citizen, which, in turn derived originally from association with the city, the meaning expanded to cover both state and territory.

Perhaps more intriguing, though totally unrelated, is the word that follows: clabber, meaning thick sour milk, from the Garlic 'clabar', meaning mud.

Gentlemen, I'm sorry: it has been a long day and, sadly for you, I found I had a little time on my hands...

Oh - I love a fellow pedant ... especially one with THE BIG BOOK:)
Etymology (and entymology) fascinates me - and I am still not civilised (or civilized) no matter which meaning you take:)
 

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