The burning question...

[stuart f]

whats the difference between Bushcrarft and survivalism?. Well i have been looking at a few of the older posts and have come to this conclusion.

Survival=Hacking your way through the wilderness,fighting off malaria, ticks and leeches,and filtering water through your boxer shorts that you've had on for 3 weeks.

Bushcraft=Port,cognac or a bottle of claret, a nice piece of stilton and maybe a fine cigar around a warm fire with only the finest of company!!!

Finally an answer,me thinks

 

[C_Claycomb]

I think I can hear the faint sound of stirring

 

[gregorach]

Yeah - how could you miss out whisky on the drinks list?

 

[BorderReiver]

Yeah - how could you miss out whisky on the drinks list?

Well said that man!

 

[JonnyP]

Notice I am first up here which is scarey..........Survival, I think is a way of life which is forced upon you.
Bushcraft, well for me, it is being in the great outdoors and learning what is going on around you and enjoying it.
I work outdoors as a builder, this is not bushcraft. If I walk from A to B, this is not bushcraft, but if on the walk from A to B, I stop and take in what is around me, then this is the start of what bushcraft is. I do not think you need a craft in the bush to be a bushcrafter, but you do need an interest in nature and what can be used or utillised (sp?) in and around you for your or others benifits. A lot can be taken from that last bit I wrote, but I know what I mean and I hope you do too.............Jon
I must write quicker

 

[stovie]

Bushcraft for me is being able to find my arrow in the woods in time to drink my coffee while it's still warm

 

[stuart f]

I meant it to be tongue and cheek, i must be a bushcrafter as i do like the odd fine tipple,and who could turn down a bit of Stilton in front a cosy fire,as for filtering water through my boxers now that i could live without, but never say never!!!!

 

[jongir]

I believe bushcraft is being able to utilise nature to your advantage or enjoying the land and it's supplies like a nice cuban cigar in the glen of tranquility. All natural products made from the land

 

[william#]

maybe there are 3 catagorys
survivalism -
something forced on you or yu start walking around in combat gear buying ex military vechiles and building electric fences around your land .
outdoorism-
mountain walking , camping generaly enjoying being under the sky in your gortex and generaly keeping berghaus in buisness
Bushcraft-
developing the basic skills needed for survival but used in a way to enjoy the enviroment avoiding expencive kit and learning to improvise but still be comfatable and dry .

 

[Goose]

I think this defines the main differences between the two, although generally having skills for one would mean having skills for the other.

Bushcraft is being there through choice, usually, and wanting to stay.Survival is being there through accident, usually, and wanting rescue.

I think your work in a survival situation should be toward rescue, and in a bushcraft situation it is geared toward extending your stay.

Survivalism is a different matter altogether,IMHO.

I survive by going to work and earning money, I escape by going playing in the woods at the weekend.

 

[Biddlesby]

I like the "survive in comfort" BCUK slogan. Perhaps that's bushcraft.

I'm in agreement with goose here. Survival is just surviving because you have no choice, whereas Bushcraft is the appreciation of nature and the practising of traditional skills; wherein most of these skills are applicable in a survival situation.

Google provided some definitions.

- continuing to live (or survive)
[url="http://www.jceh.co.uk/journal/22_05.asp"]www.jceh.co.uk/journal/22_05.asp[/url]

- a state of surviving; remaining alive
- a natural process resulting in the evolution of organisms best adapted to the environment
- something that survives
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

- a general term for knowledge that helps you survive in the bush.
au.geocities.com/redlandbushwalkingclub/Glossary.htm

 

[Wayland]

Survivors. The people left alive when everything goes wrong.

Survivalists. The people who hope everything goes wrong so they can say "I told you so" before getting shot by other survivalists.

Bushcrafters. The people who enjoy the outdoors without everything going wrong.

 

[SMARTY]

I reckon this is discussed every 4 months or so. Are we running out of topics to talk about?

 

[rich59]

"If you are uncomfortable while living in the woods, then you are not surviving." - Quote from the primitive forum on yahoo groups.

 

[Ahjno]

Quote from my good mate Paganwolf / JP back on British Blades:

The basic ethos of bushcraft is one of "man and his sharp pointy thing and nature" you could drop most bushcrafters in the middle of a woody wilderness in his Y-fronts with just a knife and come back a month later and he would be happy as larry in a 5 star shelter roasting something which was once furry, Oh he would be wearing the furry bit.

 

[gregorach]

Well, I initially wasn't going to try and add anything substantive to this thread, but an interesting distinction occurred to me on the way home from work (this distinction may have been made before, but I don't remember it if if has):

Survival is goal-oriented, whereas bushcraft is process-oriented.

To explain what I mean by that, let's consider a task fundamental to both: lighting a fire.

In a goal-oriented approach, all that matters is that the fire gets lit, as quickly and efficiently as possible. Firelighters, kerosene, blowtorch - whatever, just get that fire lit!

In a process-oriented approach, how you light the fire is as important as (if not more important than) whether it gets lit at all. An hour's effort with a bow-drill that only produces smoke might be considered a "success" if it results in learning, whereas giving up after five minutes and lighting your fire with a match would be a "failure", even though you've got the fire going.

 

[Goose]

Well, I initially wasn't going to try and add anything substantive to this thread, but an interesting distinction occurred to me on the way home from work (this distinction may have been made before, but I don't remember it if if has):

Survival is goal-oriented, whereas bushcraft is process-oriented.

To explain what I mean by that, let's consider a task fundamental to both: lighting a fire.

In a goal-oriented approach, all that matters is that the fire gets lit, as quickly and efficiently as possible. Firelighters, kerosene, blowtorch - whatever, just get that fire lit!

In a process-oriented approach, how you light the fire is as important as (if not more important than) whether it gets lit at all. An hour's effort with a bow-drill that only produces smoke might be considered a "success" if it results in learning, whereas giving up after five minutes and lighting your fire with a match would be a "failure", even though you've got the fire going.

I like that disinction

 

[British Red]

Genuine attempt to disagree with a tenet of this thread?

I find labels unhelpful!

I think the line between bushcraft, self sufficiency, ecological living, forest gardening, wild food collection etc. so fine as to be invisible. To some extent they are points on an intersecting Venn diagram.

Some of the most skilled bushcrafters I know are "survivalists". Some of the most viable survivalists I know are self sufficiency oriented small holders. I guess I understand an antagonism to "survivalists" given the press image of a camo wearing nut job. That said, I know a lot of people who pride themselves on self reliance and not needing a nanny state to send in a rescue squad when the power goes out for 24 hours!

Anyone here own any cam gear ? (I have a small amount of Realtree for hunting and wildlife photography and some surplus gear cos its cheap and well made - mostly OG though).

Anyone drive a 4x4? Own a generator? Keep a few extra tins "just in case"? Own a water filter? Some would say that makes you a survivalist!

So what am I?

Survivalist? Bushcrafter? Sustainable Energy enthusiast? Rough Shooter? Organic Grower? Backpacker? Self Sufficiency Freak? All? None?

I'm just me. I don't think that becuase someone can't distinguish between three types of fungi that they are a "bad" bushcrafter or that someone who tries to ensure their lifestyle requires minimal support from state agencies are "survivalists". I think they are just folks I can learn something from. I remember during a major power outage some guy on the TV (running off my generator) whining his kids hadn't had any hot food for three days. Now that is truly pathetic in my view. Can't see it happening to anyone here but its an attitude that both survivalists and bushcrafters should find odd.

Anyway, "preach mode off" - I fear many people think we are weird because of our interests that hurt no-one (less so in the last 5 years I agree). Lets extend others the tolerance we would like to see offered to us.

Red

(Flame away now) :umbrella:

 

[jongir]

To me, your only a survivalist if you are in a situation that requires you be. Anything else is just enjoying the outdoors.

 

[Dogface]

I also dislike this mania for trying to apply labels and put concepts in pigeon holes, but I've got to quote Swampy Matt, from a post a few days ago:-

"Surely if you choose to use these skills its bushcraft.
If you HAVE to use them, it's survival."

Very elegant.

Regards,
Nick.