Are you referring to the gun? Or the ammo? Most modern cartridge ammo of any caliber is pretty watertight just as it's sold.
The Advantages of A flintlock Gun for Long Term Wilderness Living/Survival.
- Thread starter Le Loup
- Start date
Are you referring to the gun? Or the ammo? Most modern cartridge ammo of any caliber is pretty watertight just as it's sold.
No arguments with these as such. However the OP did specifically say "long term wilderness living" as opposed to limiting it to strictly "survival." To me that also conjure thoughts on homesteading. With that in mind I think my choice of shotguns would be a larger one. A 12 (like your 300 Magnum) can be loaded for whatever game you're after: from small flying birds up to large dangerous game. Birdshot to buckshot or slugs (or even 40 caliber sabot rounds) It also adds the possibility of going back to the OP's choice of a muzzleloading shotgun (again, I'd still prefer a percussion type) You'd still have the ability to change your load for whatever game sought; although that means the the single, solid projectile would be practically limited to a pumpkin ball.
True but with the shorter range a hunter would be using the old-school stalking technique of being downwind. Of course if the wind shifts and the quarry gets a whiff it will think Cr#p! forest fire!!! and stick its head up. Anyhow... back on topic
What about the maintenance issue? Cleaning & care of a modern rifle requires consumable items such as solvents and specialist lubricants so in a homestead /pioneering or **** (insert apocalypse of choice) situation where re-stocking is likely to be problem how much would be needed to compliment say 1000 rounds of ammunition? Bearing in mind you'd probably be out shooting twice a week depending on the game available, in all weathers exposing the weapon to rain,mud,grit,snow etc.
It is, when new. .22 has a layer of wax, which seals it even more, compared to rounds with jacketed bullets.
That seal ( jacketed/case) is a bit questionable though, this is the reason ( the Swedish at least) army ammo has a lacquer on the join case/bullet to seal.
For long term storage in a wet country I think I would be anal and wax dip them, even the .22.
Australia? Well, the wax will not hurt.
It was mentioned that the primers can go bad. Maybe it can, but when I was in the Army we used ammo made in the early 40's and it was fine. Stored in unheated, but dry, conditions with ambient temperatures ranging between -50 and +30 or so.
I have zero experience with hunting using the Ancient tuff, but did shoot black Powder ( Pyrodex) revolvers with cap ignition.
Another major negative using ancient tech would be the slow second shot. When I hunted it was not unusual I or somebody in the team had to fire a second shot.
I am waiting now to get a .22 FX airgun I ordered some time ago. Back ordered, and the gun permit is delayed. I intend to use it culling Iguanas and go with a friend a shoot some Agouti.
They say Agouti is good eating! Iguana certainly is.
They say Agouti is good eating! Iguana certainly is.
Double barrels were around and popular even during muzzleloading times. Even so, most schools of thought tech that in those days they kept multiple arms at the ready for such shoots; more than two's not necessarily practical in a survival situation though.
Bear in mind that I'm not completely agreeing with the OP that a flintlock (or any other muzzleloader) is necessarily the ultimate best choice for the situations described. But I do agree that they aren't near the handicap (for these situations or normal day to day hunting) that many on here seem to believe. They're still a practical and popular choice for normal hunting and a practical one (albeit not as popular a one) for said long term wilderness living and/or survival.
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It aint the F&S that is the problem - it is damp tinder....
"Put your faith in God and keep your powder (and or tinder and kindling) dry!" as the bloke (with additions) said!
I have to say as a "Survival Rifle" the Americans already spent a tonne of cash on this and came up with the C2 or AR7 carbine. A .22LR semi automatic that packs into its own butt stock.
If I was a Mountain Man then I'd want something with a bit more punch but this little gun will get you fed.
Simple is always good when your life depends on technology. I prefer a bolt gun in .300 Win Mag and consider it one size fits all but then it can be loaded with any .30 cal bullet and the MV adjusted further by powder quantity. It's a calibre capable of taking any creature on the planet and of shooting out to 1200 yards consistently. However for survival you are likely talking small game and a .300 isn't going to leave much.
Packing 100 rounds of .22LR vs 100 rounds .300 Win Mag isn't really something I have to do.
A .22lr or .410 shotgun are both good choices.
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I actually own this rifle. It is quite nice. Well made and accurate. It would not be my first choice for a rifle but certainly is light and easy to pack. I owned the Charter arms version and the current Henry rifle brand. The Henry is the superior build.
I have to say as a "Survival Rifle" the Americans already spent a tonne of cash on this and came up with the C2 or AR7 carbine. A .22LR semi automatic that packs into its own butt stock.
If I was a Mountain Man then I'd want something with a bit more punch but this little gun will get you fed......
I remember when They were in the survival kits in the F-111s. And packed into the stock, they float!
I have a fancy for one of these but opportunity to use it is small. Last flight with a gun another £100 to take the rifle and ammo and it's becoming harder to do so each trip. UK attitudes at the airport suck!
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I hope you do not have to try the US attitude at the airports........
I shipped ( transit in the hold) some frozen fish, 60 kilos, and about 25 kilos of Scndinavian "ethnic" food a few weeks ago.
They opened the Styrofoam fish containers, the wooden crate with the food. Crushed all the artisan made cracker bread, opened every single Freia chocolate bar, and broke them into pieces. Every tube of Creamed Cod Roe was opened. And so on.
Transit Oslo-UK-US/Miami- Grand Cayman..........
Oh Hell having travelled to NZ (must be the most extreme) guns are far easier to travel with than food!
Actually drugs are probably more acceptable than food stuffs.
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Actually drugs are probably more acceptable than food stuffs.
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OK, so no NZ for me then. I have a very short temper when it comes to stupidity, and my dear wife have pinched or kicked me many times entering the US "Homeland Security". Should be called Heimat Security.
She does not want to be put on a Black List and have to undergo gloved Cavity Search............
Exporting guns is easy from the US. Show the Export Permit, Import Document and Permit in the home country and they are fine.
Never tried to take a gun through the US. Apparently impossible. Wife competes internationally, and she always goes through UK.
UK is fun with a revolver or pistol. Not.
As you say, easier with a kilo of C or H.
She does not want to be put on a Black List and have to undergo gloved Cavity Search............
Exporting guns is easy from the US. Show the Export Permit, Import Document and Permit in the home country and they are fine.
Never tried to take a gun through the US. Apparently impossible. Wife competes internationally, and she always goes through UK.
UK is fun with a revolver or pistol. Not.
As you say, easier with a kilo of C or H.
Transporting guns (by air) within the US is reasonably easy. Unloaded and locked in a hardshell luggage (gun case, or hard sided suitcase, etc) and checked into baggage (inaccessible during flight) That's the federal law. State law at both the departure and destination airport may vary a bit as may individual airline regulations/policies, but I've never had any problems. A small scare once when I didn't see my rifle case on the baggage carousel when I landed in Austin. I went to the desk to file a claim but they had it there waiting for me. They'd merely kept it off the carousel to make sure the right owner claimed it with ID.
Don't try to travel to Australia with food (particularly nuts or fruit), leather or wooden goods. You won't end up on a black list, you will just be fined and the foodstuffs destroyed.
If you are celebrity you'll be forced to make a humiliating video apology.
wooden articles have to be free of bark, insects and oiled or varnished-- I brought my walking stick several times to both NZ and OZ without issues ( but checked before my first trip to NZ with authorities )
to get back to the original subject: barrel fouling is an issue with black powder weapons: how did the long hunters/mountain men deal with this issue?!
one advantage of muzzleloaders i can see is the fact that theoretically ​it would be possible to make one yourself in a WT**** scenario- the hill tribes used crude homemade shotguns during the Vietnam war, the kachin preferred muzzleloader shotguns in WWII despite their "" allies"" supplying them with modern weapons and I remember reading a story of tiger poachers using a homemade gun (using match heads as propellant)- the problem would be the barrel (@ least I don't fancy a barrel blowing up in my face)
the problem with the longer reloading time could be solved with a replica of a lorenzoni or kalthoff rifle......
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Don't count on it; a professional flute player travelling to Australia had his (antique wooden) flute taken off him and destroyed. It was oiled (obviously). They claimed there might have been evidence of insect damage and hence infestation - it was a 200year old flute *** not something you'd let be infested with borers. Treated daily with almond oil.
The story can be found on the chiff and fipple forum as a caution to musicians who are travelling.
Typically (here at least) forest dweller would be correct. Only raw wood (which is an agricultural item TBH)would be suspect unless there were some other signs evident.
Your earlier reference to leather has me curious; just what types of leather are you talking about? Would your shoes be suspect? Wallets? Women's (or men's) handbags or briefcases/luggage? You get the picture, common everyday travel items?
