Skeleton Tang Strength - Opinions please

[Totumpole]

HEy guys, I've just seen the following link in another thread:
http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?3225-Spyderco-Design-Flaw

Got me to thinking about how weak a skeleton tang would actually make a knife. I've seen numerous youtube video's praising the Enzo trapper for being able to take a beating, but they have a massive hole bored out of the middle of the tang. I have seen a few other blanks with numerous holes bored to lighten the tang. Another weight saving/balance type design feature is a tapered tang, but thats not something I will be undertaking in the infancy of my knife making career. How much do you think that different kinds of designs will affect strength?

Thanks for all the input in advance.

Colin

 

[dwardo]

Its a bit of an age old debate. Stick tang, taper, and full.
My conclusion after reading all of the various arguments was, If you use a knife for what its meant to be used for they are all ok.
If you want to use your knife as a chisel, a froe or an axe they are all at risk of breakage.
A knife is a knife and not any of the above.

 

[Totumpole]

Very true. I was just wondering if repeated and prolonged use for things like batoning would eventually weaken a skeletonised full tang and lead to breakage. I would not do much more than the occasional bit of batoning with a stick tang as I know it's not going to hold up to that kind of abuse in the long term.

 

[Stew]

Fully hardened tang or differentially tempered?

 

[Totumpole]

Would it be more brittle if fully hardened and therefor more prone to break under repeated strains such as batoning or levering?

 

[mr doyle]

Its usually necessary to make holes in a tang to lighten and balance the knife. Without some kind of metal reduction you are going to have one handle heavy knife. A well made, properly heat treated blade should be able to take all kinds of abuse. That Spyderco still has a lot of metal there, however the hole could of done with being further back, or two smaller holes top and bottom.
I do mostly stick/ hidden tangs and they are all intended for bushcraft and a bit of a beating. Never had one fail which includes batoning. Its the reason all my knives have a metal bolster as this tends to be the weakest area of most knives IMO.
One other thing, the Wilkinson Sword Survival knife (the monster with the slide off handle containing a turd of a survival kit) has very little metal in the tang, but I have never heard or seen one break.
M

 

[Retired Member southey]

Its usually necessary to make holes in a tang to lighten and balance the knife. Without some kind of metal reduction you are going to have one handle heavy knife. A well made, properly heat treated blade should be able to take all kinds of abuse. That Spyderco still has a lot of metal there, however the hole could of done with being further back, or two smaller holes top and bottom.
I do mostly stick/ hidden tangs and they are all intended for bushcraft and a bit of a beating. Never had one fail which includes batoning. Its the reason all my knives have a metal bolster as this tends to be the weakest area of most knives IMO.
One other thing, the Wilkinson Sword Survival knife (the monster with the slide off handle containing a turd of a survival kit) has very little metal in the tang, but I have never heard or seen one break.
M

Ahaaa!

Broken wilky

 

[santaman2000]

Its usually necessary to make holes in a tang to lighten and balance the knife. Without some kind of metal reduction you are going to have one handle heavy knife....

Only with small bladed knives. Knives with larger blades tend to make up the difference with plenty of blade weight.

 

[Stew]

Ahaaa!

Broken wilky

One less in the world for us to worry about.

 

[Retired Member southey]

hahaha, but more pegs will be needed!

 

[Samon]

I've heard of plenty of spyderco bushcraft knives getting broken by us lot, due to all the battoning some of us do. If you are worried about the Enzo lookat these videos:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l0Pcngvdms the guy trys to demonstrate the genuine toughness of the knife, not the typical arm chair review crap either, he actually sets out to break the knfie he 'tests' and it shows just how tough the enzo truely is.


I'd rather the tang was full with no holes, but that's just my preferance. Maybe a stick tang if it had a steel butt plate!

 

[Stew]

I've heard of plenty of spyderco bushcraft knives getting broken by us lot, due to all the battoning some of us do.

Really?

Who/where/when?

 

[Totumpole]

.....If you are worried about the Enzo lookat these videos.....

I've seen those, thats what I was referring to in the origional post. They do take an absolute beating, just wondering how they might fair over the course of years. So on that note does anyone have any evidence of a broken trapper?

Its interesting getting everyones thoughts so thanks. Keep the opinions coming!

 

[Stew]

Here's one that's not a skeletonised tang for you...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/328256-CS-Recon-Scout-Fails-Miserably

 

[bushwacker bob]

Would it be more brittle if fully hardened and therefor more prone to break under repeated strains such as batoning or levering?

I think you have a knife confused with an axe or a prybar.

 

[Retired Member southey]

hahaha cold steel comedy blades!

 

[Totumpole]

Here's one that's not a skeletonised tang for you...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/328256-CS-Recon-Scout-Fails-Miserably

Well that was a bit ambitious - I'm sure even a moderate sized axe might struggle with that!

I think you have a knife confused with an axe or a prybar.

I'm just speculating as to wether this would be the case if you chose/needed to apply these kinds of forces to your knife in a given situation. I certainly don't carry a prybar round the wilds with me, just in case.

 

[mr doyle]

One less in the world for us to worry about.

I'll get my coat..

 

[santaman2000]

Well that was a bit ambitious - I'm sure even a moderate sized axe might struggle with that!


I'm just speculating as to wether this would be the case if you chose/needed to apply these kinds of forces to your knife in a given situation. I certainly don't carry a prybar round the wilds with me, just in case.

On the first point: I normally split several cords of firewood every year from logs bigger than that as a teenager. So NO, it's not much of a job at all for an axe; just another everyday job. It is way too much to expect of a knife though.

Second point: Neithet do I and I also expect to do a "reasonabl" amount of prying (especially when digging roots) with a knife. However, if you're really expecting to do a lot of heavier prying with it, you might want to get a blunt tipped, heavy bladed, diver's knife instead.

 

[rik_uk3]

Sod all that
http://www.logsplittersworld.co.uk/p/Forest_Master_Hand_Driven_15_Ton_Ultimate_Log_Splitter.htm
get one of these.