Sharpening problem

[harlequin]

OK lads,
I have in my possession an Alan Wood/Ray Mears original but when I sharpen it, it still feels kinda blunt.
The sharpening process I've used is three Japanese waterstones (grit 800;1200;3000) and when I finish it feels sharp but then once I run it over a strop even this seemingly sharpness disappears.
I'm just wondering if its because the blade is so thick that it seems more like a chisel.
Any help....anyone!
Thanks

 

[BorderReiver]

You've got a faulty one.

I'll give you a tenner for it.


OR.Have an ask on BB,you might be using the wrong angle for the blade profile.

 

[British Red]

Sounds very odd. I would certainly sharpen beyond 3,000 grit but that should be enough to get a good working edge.

Okay a few questions

If you hold a sheet of A4 paper by the corner, will it slice the paper cleanly top to bottom?

Will it shave hairs with minimal pressure?

What stropping action do you use?

How many passes do you use on each stone?

I assume your technique is okay - I diagrammed mine in the £5 sharpening kit sticky thread - is that how you do it?

Red

 

[BorderReiver]

I think my second point is more likely.

 

[British Red]

You could be right - but I'm not sure how you would get a bad angle with waterstones? I'm assuming harlequin is freehand sharpening?

Red

 

[harlequin]

i'm ignoring border reiver for the moment (bit of a chancer!) but his recommendations are always welcome!
No it won't shave hair off your forearm.
I already had a slight sharpening problem with it because I used the lansky system. This ended up with me having a secondary bevel on it! After many hours on the stones this was removed. I've inspected the edge of the blade with a field microscope and all looks ok.
But it still does not feel sharp.
As far as I know my sharpening technique is quite allright.

 

[weaver]

Describe your actions as you strop the knife?

I don't want to ask a leading question, like to know how exactly you hold the knife and how you follow through on each stroke?

 

[British Red]

Hmmm okay so its not as sharp as it should be!

Lets work backwards since the strop seems to be blunting it. What type of strop are you using and in what way?

I have seen people use a razor type strop and too loosely. This works okay on a hollw ground cut throat but can be awful on a scandy. For me your leather should be glued to a board rough side up most and well loaded with green or pink buffing compound. Stropping should then be done spine first and with the whole bevel pushed flat against the board and not "rocked". Is that how you do it?

Red

 

[weaver]

Red,

You should know better than to give the answer within the question.




"yeah mate, that's exactly how I do it!"

 

[British Red]

Sorry weaver

Just trying to help the guy out! It sounds like a loose strop or no buffing compound taking the cutting edge off to me

Red

 

[weaver]

weaver

Just trying to help the guy out! It sounds like a loose strop or no buffing compound taking the cutting edge off to me

Red

That or rolling the knife at the end of the stroke, Yep we agree. I just wanted to read his description first.

He'll be honest, I'm sure.

 

[BorderReiver]

S orry for mucking about.

I find it hard to think that a stroping could take an edge off a well sharpened knife.Unless of course,as Red says,the strop is loose and a convex edge is produced.

IMO it would take a LOT of stroping to take the edge off.

Is it possible that you are not keeping the flat of the blade absolutely "flat" on the stone?

 

[harlequin]

Yup lads,it is a loose strop. The problem might be that when rolling it from edge to edge at the end of the stroke I'm creating a convex profile. The action I have been using is quite heavy and I've been using green stropping paste.
If this is the case, how do i remedy it?

 

[British Red]

Glue a piece of leather to a completely flat board (a bit of chipboard or mdf works well).

push the bevel onto the board with the middle three fingers of your left hand holding the handle in your right hand, spine facing away. Your right hand moves the knife, left holds it flat.

Now my way for the other bevel is not to "roll over" which gives problems but change hands (left hand on the handle, right fingers on the bevel - spine still facing away). Push the knife away from you holding the bevel flat and true. A thin leather works better than thick as thick acts like a mouse mat and encourages convexing.

Also think about getting a 6,000 grit stone and a 10,000 nagura - use the two together before stropping

Red

 

[Matt Weir]

Yup lads,it is a loose strop. The problem might be that when rolling it from edge to edge at the end of the stroke I'm creating a convex profile. The action I have been using is quite heavy and I've been using green stropping paste.
If this is the case, how do i remedy it?

ULRIKA!

This is where I've been going wrong! I think?!?. Ah well - roll on the Summer Moot when I can get my hands on Longstrider, some mini hones and some realtime tuition.

Thanks for this thread chaps.

 

[harlequin]

Thanks Red, that sounds like excellent advice. I think I've made a mistake in saying that my final stone was a 3000. It is a 6000 with a nigura stone, just checked. The action that you are describing when using the strop sounds obviously more effective than the way I've been doing it!:You_Rock_

I'll try this technique first before I sell it to Border for a tenner!

Cheers I'll keep you posted!

 

[weaver]

When I first started using a strop about 25 years ago I was rolling the blade at the end of the stroke and pulling back. I could not get a sharp edge. Then a friend showed me what I was doing wrong. I then tried as Red says, well not exactly but close. Keeping the edge of the blade flat throughout the stroke, lifting the blade, then pulling it back with the edge of the blade flat on the return stroke.

Really keeping the same angle as on the stone.

You see barbers in old movies rolling the blade on the strop and you think that is how it should be done. WRONG! That makes a very rounded edge that is slick and looks sharp but it will not cut.

 

[Mirius]

Well that tells me where I'm going wrong too! Sharp enough to cut into paper but not enough to cut A4 top to bottom or shave hairs... Hmmmm.... going to give that a go then!

 

[harlequin]

AH-HA

I just knew I wasn't alone!

I already know without trying that that was great advice!

It's why we post here.

 

[Mirius]

Well that was a big improvement! Still not managed to get a decent edge on the penknife, but the mora and MOD survival knife are now hair shaving sharp - and much better polished too.