sas smock or not?

[Rabbitsmacker]

hi guys, just bought this on ebay, and a bit confused by it.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DPM-Windproof...Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item4157bd136b


i collect SAS smocks amongst other things and have several modern and vintage smocks. when this arrived, it is very very thin, modern material (and print/colour/shades), label is correctly presented, and describes it as 'smock, combat, woodland dp windproof' whereas the originals i have say 'smock, combat CAMOUFLAGED,windproof'.

all the pockets are correct as is stiching and quality of manufacture. but it is very very thin material. now i also have the more modern windproof smock that went on general issue which later had the mesh lining added to them. and it is a thick polycotton material. this one is like i said, almost half as thick, cotton ish i would say, of high quality. no flag on the sleeve like the general issue smock. i am very familiar with the current woodlan dp windproof, and the older windproos sas and arctic and am not confusing either, but this one beats me, quality is there, just very thin.

have i bought a pup? is it a copy, or is it a model that was never issued? or a civvy purchase? its not sass but is of that quality. anybody got any ideas?

oh also, the nato stock number is correct.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

seller just got back to me with this...
One of the lads at work got it as it was going spare and gave it to me as it was too big for him - but it was a bit big for me. I've been working witht he Navy so it's probably old stock compared to recent infantry issue, I've certainly not seen that pattern before.

... still not sure about it, it's very nice and lightweight, and windproof, modern pattern dpm, but completely spot on SAS smock detailing. i'd say genuine material. maybe its been run up by a sewing genius. maybe a little long in the body for me, might have to pass it on but it's very good.

 

[ashes1627]

My basha says woodland DP, so I think that is normal

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

just hoping it's not a copy mate, woodland dp is the standard term for camouflage nowadays. but am aware there is a lot of copies out there, never handled one so not sure if the thinness of the material is a worry. the serial numbers get copied too which makes it difficult. no makers name in it, also no materials list which is also a good sign as genuine stuff doesn't have the material mix in it, but just a bit flumaxed by it.

 

[johnnythefox]

it does say on the add light
sass make several different versions themselves anyone can get the material.

most of the time the sas are wearing what we all wear anyway,we can all get cold and need wind protection.

the specs are laid down and sent for tender so different companies can make the same stuff and be slightly different.

the stiff collar wool shirts where desirable [smarter] than the soft collar shirts both had the same stock no.
lots of kit in fact had the same NATO no but was noticeably different like the magazines for the sa 80.

i wasn't sas,marine or para but the jacket issued me in 2003 [before the army finished me of] is top quality and hanging up downstairs in the hall.

 

[johnnythefox]

it does say on the add light
sass make several different versions themselves anyone can get the material.

most of the time the sas are wearing what we all wear anyway,we can all get cold and need wind protection.

the specs are laid down and sent for tender so different companies can make the same stuff and be slightly different.

the stiff collar wool shirts where desirable [smarter] than the soft collar shirts both had the same stock no.
lots of kit in fact had the same NATO no but was noticeably different like the magazines for the sa 80.

i wasn't sas,marine or para but the jacket issued me in 2003 [before the army finished me of] is top quality and hanging up downstairs in the hall.

i dont wear it much now though

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

thanks for that info on the stock numbers. didn't realise identicle numbers could be used on different items, suppose it would effect items that were like for like replacements or upgrades etc on a item. did see it said light in the ad, but does seem to be a very loosley used term for a fabric that actually isn't all that light, i have 2 of this type already, one is late 1980s earl90s, old style dpm, thinnish material. another is soldier 95 type camo and abit heavier. still same product, so maybe its a differing manufacturer in the supply chain thats turned this one out, but then as you say, the materials are readily available. silvermans, dragon supplies and sass to name but a few that supply 'genuine' sas smocks brand new! which are obviously being run up to order out of the same material.

 

[PaulSanderson]

does it have an NSN???

if so mate, PM me and i'll check it in at work. thats no guarantee of authenicity of course but it might go someway to helping ident if its a genuine issue one or not...

 

[johnnythefox]

for instance we could be issued a crescent shape large adjustable or a F type large adjustable spanner for our toolbox [1980s]
it would be the luck of the draw.
working on armoured vehicles we needed F type as it opens further/stronger so we would try to swap.
on the stores G10 inventory they would show as the same item.

 

[johnnythefox]

i was looking at these earlier not issue
but the owners are ex-regiment
and very good stuff.


http://www.sasskit.co.uk/productlist.php?category=Clothing

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

i was looking at these earlier not issue
but the owners are ex-regiment
and very good stuff.


http://www.sasskit.co.uk/productlist.php?category=Clothing

have dealt with them before, had one of their vetile smocks, also currently have a customised green gabardine version from them, with long chest pockets that take an OS map each side, zipped pockets behind those, and pockets on the backs of the forearms that take elbow pads. also a compass pouch on the left map pocket. similar to their force 8, but plain green, non ripstop, its got the outward features of the force 8 on a basic sas smock design. maybe an earlier mk.
have found them to be hit and miss on sizing, i know a lot of people haven't had this problem, but i'm a 180/104 military size, or for a baggy fit, 180/112. sas chest sizes go 102-107, and then of course the larger sizes. i've just found both smocks i've had from them are small fitting, the 180/102-107 i had in ventile was too short in the arms and tight around the middles, and the gaberdine one i have now is still a little short in the arms but better around the middle. i will order from them again but i'll get a 112 chest equivelant and maybe the 190 length just to be sure its nice and baggy. build quality is good mind. and quick turn around on production. they are sold out of green ventil(ish) material tho at the moment.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

does it have an NSN???

if so mate, PM me and i'll check it in at work. thats no guarantee of authenicity of course but it might go someway to helping ident if its a genuine issue one or not...

cheers for that but the nsn tallies with two deffo genuine ones i have here already. it has a contract number in it, is this any help?

 

[johnnythefox]

this is my original 2003 and genuine.

it is thin as well which is desirable some people took the lining out of the old issue smock,like a potato sack when wet.
cotton/poly-cotton you want thin so it dries quick,we never wore waterproofs in the 80s.

haven't worn it a while and forgotten just how good it is with all the pockets etc.
now its warmer i think i will wear it again as my snugpak jacket cant resist the brambles like these.

 

[m.durston]

rabbitsmacker that smock isnt a copy it is the real thing. its one of the last true windproof smocks to be made in cotton gaberdine (soldier 2000 colours) with the original style buttons before they went over to that one that has all the mesh lining and canadian style buttons click this for an example.

i own two examples of your smock, one that is from when i was in the TA and it is pretty much faded to buggery but i love it! and this pristine example i picked up off ebay for 60 quid.

nice close up of the label. note the shiny material used, i think this was used in an effort to stop the lettering fading from repeat washing.

when this jacket turned up it was still in its original wrapper with the MOD barcode sticker on it!

 

[FGYT]

cotton gaberdine SAS smocks are the best i ever had after a few washes they where as soft as silk light thin so dried quickly
I think :bluThinki i still have one and a set of matching trousers (shame they dont fit any more they really where silky smooth )
not sure I think its in one of a couple of bags of assorted military stuff i havent looked in for years in case the missus sees them and demands they are chucked out (along with a set of British Issue coveralls in Russian Computer pattern :yikes

I also had a Mk 1 SASS Kit Carry smock which was based on the SAS one they improved it by putting cotton pockets on the gaberdine jacket (this was before Rip stop took over) to give harder wearing on the pockets very nice but never as comfy as the original (to many pockets ment you carried to much stuff)

ATB

Duncan

 

[John Fenna]

I loved my Survival Aids gabardine SAS smock and trousers - long gone to worn out heaven now.....

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

rabbitsmacker that smock isnt a copy it is the real thing. its one of the last true windproof smocks to be made in cotton gaberdine (soldier 2000 colours) with the original style buttons before they went over to that one that has all the mesh lining and canadian style buttons click this for an example.

i own two examples of your smock, one that is from when i was in the TA and it is pretty much faded to buggery but i love it! and this pristine example i picked up off ebay for 60 quid.

nice close up of the label. note the shiny material used, i think this was used in an effort to stop the lettering fading from repeat washing.

when this jacket turned up it was still in its original wrapper with the MOD barcode sticker on it!

THATS THE ONE!!!
brilliant, chuffed with that. i was so unsure, don't do modern kit, my other sas smocks though garbadine are a lot heavier but the overall quality and new pattern camo was deffo throwing me off the scent. think i shall be keeping it as i bought a longer one than my usual 180 and it comes down just above the knee which is great for weather protection and its light so good quick drying stuff. it didn't feel like poly cotton and had that sheen of the garbadine verions. cheers mate!

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

ps! when my missus saw the picture of your smock all she could say was ' thats the rug we used to have, looks like our baby stroller too!"lol

 

[m.durston]

ps! when my missus saw the picture of your smock all she could say was ' thats the rug we used to have, looks like our baby stroller too!"lol

thats tickled my missus (so to speak) lol
happy to help with british stuff mate, as i have owned god knows how much kit over the years and consider myself a bit of an 'anorak' on the subject

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

well, i just tried taking pictures of my smocks for this thread, and well, difficult with my camera in unatural light, will try some at work where we have a model.
got a late 1980's early 1990's, pale type camo, widely spaced patches of colour, ffd on right arm so not an early model.
mid 1990's in soldier p5 camo, heavier weight. more regular denser dpm.
then this one you say is soldier 2000, same as the two previous but uber lightweight as we've discussed.
a od green sass smock as discussed earlier in the thread.
and my old fav, ww2 windproof anorak. known generically as sas smock mine is actually, 'smock,windproof,snow,heavy'
quite a few produced in this pattern...

smock,windproof,drab (desert and mountain warfare ww2)
smock windproof,camouflage (general windproof, screen printed and freehand painted, as was denison smocks of the time, mostly associated with the sas thru to the 1970's with zips fitted later on, actually very widely used in other branches and even on everest attempts while at basecamps)
smock, windproof, snow, (green denim, and used for arctic warfare training by commandos in scotland ww2)
smock, windproof, snow, heavy. (white version of above for deployment ww2, the one i have)
smock, windproof, snow, light. (lighter weight version of above, white again ww2)
smock, windproof, camouflage 66 pattern (ww2 design, zip fitted, in the latest DPM with overlapping colour printing)
smock windproof, cadet forces (green and orange available, one chest pocket, 2 lower pockets)
smock, combat, windproof, camouflage (the first of the current style windproofs, mid to late 70's, to mid to late 80's, overlapping printing of dpm and pale in colour)
smock, combat, windproof, camouflage, arctic (as above, with arctic wired hood, rank tabs front and back, more commonly associated with royal marines issue)
smock, combat, windproof, camouflage (very late 80s and end of 90s, ffd pocket appears on right arm. no overlapping of dpm shades, some aquire rank tabs to front)
smock, combat, windproof, camouflage, arctic (as above re ffd pocket, rank tab removed from back)

these go thru varius uprgrades of dpm type, and as always produced by various manufacturers, some with cloth labels, some with green plasticated labels.

then, as my friend m.durston informs me, smock,combat, woodland dp, windproof comes into the fray (soldier 2000 dpm, no rank tabs,design as before)

lots of private purchase variants start being brought in especially items made in theatre for desert ops in various countries desert patterns.
the breed then dies on its **** apprently, replaced by the current issue smock, combat, windproof, woodland dp (based on a basic combat jacket, seams now on shoulders under shoulder straps of equipment, whereas the older styles had raglan sleeves which reduce rubbing to the shoulders. it also is now produced in polycotton, with chest zips. basically a 94 pattern smock, in windproof polycotton, with a arctic hood permenantly attached)
this general issue windproof then receives upgrades of mesh lining, pit zips, mesh inside pockets, and mesh bottomed outside pockets for improved wet weather drainage. worth its weight in gold after river crossing.
this is the last windproof produced in DPM, currently being produced in MTP for afghan.

not an exhaustive list i'm sure, but this is a rough family tree for the windproof, also some basic combat field jackets were windproof without hoods, some could accept button on hoods to bridge the gap. all of the above variants were also produced with matching over trousers, including a cross over belt design in the early to mid eighties most associated with sas issue.also naval windproofs exist andare now 'in vogue' on bushcraft.

i'll take my pills now! lol