Ray Mears SWC Bushcraft Knife

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m.durston

Full Member
Jun 15, 2005
378
0
45
st albans
hi all, i was just browsing through uncle rays website and noticed that his SWC bushcraft knife hasnt sold out yet. when i brought mine last year there was a mad rush for the 20 that were available and they sold out in a few hours. so to see they are still available seems strange to me.
i've got three theorys as to why this is,
1) the price increase from £275 to £295 is too steep for some.
2) the admin person hasnt bothered to update the website.
3) Steve Wade Cox has put all his efforts into making more of these knives to satisfy the demand.

thoughts anyone?
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
56
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
My thoughts:

1. Many people prepared to spend that kind of money on that sort of knife might prefer a safer bet which would be the Alan Wood Woodlore, once your name finally reaches the top of the waiting list...

2. There are only so many people who want that sort of knife to begin with

3. There are only so many people are willing to spend that sort of money on a knife to begin with

4. There appears to be an underlying attitude of "it's not a real Woodlore" or "it's a Woodlore, sort of but not really" or "it's just another cash-crop knife capitalising on the popularity of bushcraft in general" for some folks (just something I picked up from speaking with a bunch of people) and it doesn't appear to be judged on its own merits but gets inevitably compared to the AW Woodlore knife itself

5. More folks are being careful with their disposable income

6. In today's instant gratification society a lot of people might simply stop looking at the site regularly if it often has an "out of stock" message. Folks want their stuff now and if it isn't there a lot of people will go elsewhere for an alternative product or just not bother.

7. There is a lot of interest continually developing for knives that do not conform to the spear point, Scandi ground Woodlore style, and more folks aren't buying on the copycat basis but are making more informed decisions based on their own needs

Or, you last point "Steve Wade Cox has put all his efforts into making more of these knives to satisfy the demand" might have something to do with it, but one man can only make so many knives in any one year and under normal circumstances you would enter an agreement with the reseller (Woodlore) for up to and including a capped upper ceiling number in advance of starting to make them. No point in agreeing to do 50 a year and finding you need to make 500...
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,481
Stourton,UK
They get 30 a month from SWC, so demand for them has been met by those people that wanted one immediately, which is why Woodlore went with that idea. The plan was for the demand to be met and then to have them in stock permanently to relieve the pressure on the AW Woodlore demand. If you consider they've been making them for a year or so now, then that's at least 360 knives that have been sold. They will never hold the same 'awe' and desire that the Alan Wood version will, but that isn't why they were made. They were made so anyone that wanted a RM branded knife could get one without the huge wait. It's taken a year to get to that point.
 

m.durston

Full Member
Jun 15, 2005
378
0
45
st albans
after reading your post xunil has got me thinking about it a bit more and to be honest i reckon all of your points are true. i can definitely see the thinking that the SWC knife isnt really a proper woodlore etc etc and people would rather wait and try to get their hands on a 'real' version. i actually decided myself cos i couldnt be arsed to wait that i would get a custom one from SWC. my plan was scuppered when he started making the bushcraft knife and closed his order book lol
personally i love my knife and it is a user with fine workmanship to boot.

jon your comment makes perfect sense! why didnt i think of that lol
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,481
Stourton,UK
It will be seen as a Woodlore by some people, but for most who know the knives, then it will be seen as a completely different model. You can see why RM branded it as the 'Bushcraft' knife and not a 'SWC Woodlore' as it is a completely different shape with different slab profiles. The Wilkinson Sword versions were much closer to the Woodlore shape, but the SWC differs quite a lot. I think it's great that it will be used rather than kept in a case or drawer, as it will never hold it's value if it is readily available, and will stop those folks that buy it just to sell it on and make a profit. I do hope that Woodlore make a factory version though, so that more people will find it accessable. Problem is, even factory made pieces of quality are costly now too, especially with the quality that RM demands. I think that is why you'll find the exclusive 510 Mora will take permanent residence in the Woodlore shop, so that an exclusive branded RM knife will be available to those that can't and don't want to pay too much for a knife, but want the RM connection.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,481
Stourton,UK
simple question in the real world are both knifes equal?

That's a question that is impossible to answer unless you are comparing identical objects. They both cut stuff, but are different shapes and feel different in the hand and from person to person. One keeps it's value, is rare and can even increase in value. The other is easy to obtain and doesn't. One is made by one of the most desirable knife makers in the World and is used by RM himself. The other isn't. You could go on and on.
 

Silverback 1

Native
Jun 27, 2009
1,216
0
64
WEST YORKSHIRE
It would appear from reading though this forum and also BB that there may well be some issues with the knife as regards handle scale shrinkage/movement and coupled with the price rise this may well be putting people off the purchase.
 

Woodcutter

Full Member
Feb 6, 2006
723
36
54
Kent
simple question in the real world are both knifes equal?

I own AW knives amoungst others, I have had 2 of the SWC versions and sent them back as the scales shrank, the first one I had a replacement, but when the same thing happened to the replacement I had my money back, so I would say no, they are not equal. I would have another if the handle material changed, and liners included as they are a great knife, just let down by poor materials which I suspect SWC is forced to use to keep the contract.
 
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JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,481
Stourton,UK
It would appear from reading though this forum and also BB that there may well be some issues with the knife as regards handle scale shrinkage/movement and coupled with the price rise this may well be putting people off the purchase.

I doubt it, over 360 have been sold already and there are only a couple of reports on the handle issue so far. It's a natural material so it's only expected in the amount sold for this problem to occur in a few knives. It also seems to have been just the one batch. I know a couple of people with them and they never had the issue. The wood is 300 years old, so it should be stable, but even batches of 300 year old wood can have less than perfect pieces in there.
 

m.durston

Full Member
Jun 15, 2005
378
0
45
st albans
but even batches of 300 year old wood can have less than perfect pieces in there.
IIRC the iroko wood is reclaimed from a church. you will probably find that bad batch were made from a pew that held the more rotund members of the congregation lol

it is a shame that some were less than perfect but these things are unavoidable. maybe woodlore and swc can come up with a few models with antler scales or another nice exotic wood like bubinga?
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
56
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
The wood will be dimensionally stable in its native environment, as in, a cool church. Take it out of that and put it in your living room or the boot of the car in summer and it will often move - natural materials - got to love them :)

Even Micarta can move slightly - I did a knife show in America twenty-odd years ago and both linen and canvas Micarta shifted just enough to allow your nail to catch slightly at the edge of the tang/slab junction. It was still a good show but I was very disappointed in what people assume is a completely stable material.

A friend of mine did a show last year in Florida and when he took his knives there from Nevada he said one set of carbon fibre scales moved just enough to feel the edge of the joint - heat and humidity can move almost anything.

I've had much better luck over the years with incredibly dense woods over the lighter timbers. A shift of a couple of percent moisture content (which can occur no matter what handle finish you put on the grip to seal it) can be enough to cause problems and timber from the outside of a large piece will act differently to slabs cut from core wood deeper in the same piece.

The worry from a maker's perspective is always that your name gets dragged backwards through the hedge when folks start talking about materials problems/failures. Nobody ever wants to make a knife and have it returned for this kind of issue, especially in this day and age of internet chatter where a rant, however justified it may seem to the individual concerned, can directly affect sales.

I've seen a couple of the SWC Bushcraft knives and I like what they offer, but not everyone will see or judge them independently for what they are, which is a real shame.
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,481
Stourton,UK
Remember it's not only the scales that move. A blade, tang, bolts and lanyard tubes that were made in a cold workshop in the Winter will expand dramatically in the Summer and vice versa.
 

Woodcutter

Full Member
Feb 6, 2006
723
36
54
Kent
I doubt it, over 360 have been sold already and there are only a couple of reports on the handle issue so far. It's a natural material so it's only expected in the amount sold for this problem to occur in a few knives. It also seems to have been just the one batch. I know a couple of people with them and they never had the issue. The wood is 300 years old, so it should be stable, but even batches of 300 year old wood can have less than perfect pieces in there.

Woodlore admitted to me that several people had sent knives back with the same issue, and there are at least 10 people on BB with the same problem, so not as isolated at it would seem. My two knives were from 2 different batches, or so I was assured when I asked for my first replacement. Shame, as I have said it was a great knife, let down, and for nearly £300 it should be perfect and stay perfect. AW's do, StuMs do and so on.
 

Chris the Cat

Full Member
Jan 29, 2008
2,850
14
Exmoor
No problems with mine so far, I think I got one of the first batches.
I realy like the Iroko wood slabs, a lot of character.
I don't use my AW any more ( retired, for the kids! )
But I am loving the JP 25th aniversary knife ! Realy fits my hand well and I love that forged finish!
( I'm bit of a Dave Budd kind of guy for the most part! )
Chris.
 

Chris the Cat

Full Member
Jan 29, 2008
2,850
14
Exmoor
Har! I take your point gunbunny, but they are left over from my old life, when I had a job!
Its getting hard to hang onto them but I will is I can.
I don't own much ( Possesion wise ) that I realy love, apart from my books, but I love those knifes and hope, one day, that my kids will too.
Take care.
Chris
 

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