Plastic free camping
- Thread starter Woody girl
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Isn't that what husbands are forNo worries, it will be recycled!
I'm presently laid up with a knackered back..tried to move some mahoosive paving stones on my own this morning to try and finish the path to the compost bin, (silly woman!) So it will be early next week before I can post your thank you package.
Why do I do this? Just got so fed up with waiting for help to lay just two paving slabs. It's been months waiting for the proffered help,I must remember I can't lift and carry as I once used to!
If you still have one I guess yes. Mine had a fatal stroke.
Meanwhile, I have to try to do things for myself.
It would have been better if more thought to sustainability had been given at the time. But it was about making money. Cotton bags, or wicker or sisal, all of which I use are far more sustainable, but sadly don't make as much money for the producer.
I have, a wicker basket from the early 1970s which I still use, and about a year ago, had a new handle put on it. Only it's second handle in all those years.
I agree that we should be thinking twice about paper bags with the massive loss of trees over the years. (Rain forest depletion and fires etc) Cotton bags can be made from old cotton clothing to hold loose veg, and to make wax cotton wraps for fresh cut cheese etc.
There are many ways round it if you look and don't just shop at the supermarket by default.
I wasn't making a statement, just a little known bit of info on the carrier bag .
I don't use carrier bags as always have my own
I know, plastic bags seemed like a good idea at the time, but experience tells us different. Something to be said for the old ways that lasted for hundreds of years.
I have several wicker baskets, but they can be heavy and unwieldy, mostly used for foraging nowadays, I always carry a couple of cotton bags, and a waxed cotton foraging bag.
Seriously and without taking the mick, my kit is mostly old now, about 10 years old except for a new 3 year old paramo and a 4 year old buffalo plus a few new consumables like wool socks and polypropylene base layers. One pp base layer is 38 years old and showing no sign of wearing out. Compare that to all merino I've ever owned that lasted 2 winters at most before wearing out. Then my rucksack used for nights out it's about 30 years old since I bought it.
I have a mate with a karrimor rucksack with the old gold guarantee. It is probably 40 plus. He kept sending it off to karrimor with a copy of his original tags containing the guarantee wording and a copy of his original till receipt. They repaired it and sent it back washed, patched and repaired. He kept hoping they'd give him a brand new rucksack to stop him doing this. They didn't. Lost contact and sports direct I suspect have bought him off by now. It was a very comfortable carry with even heavy loads but weighed not that much over 1kg of at all. In fact a quote lightweight, full carry weight rucksack because it dated from before rucksacks got fat with unnecessary features. I bet that one is very low impact due to it having such a long life and made in the UK!
Basically buying plastic is not the only demon for the planet, carbon footprint, water usage / stress, lifetime of the product, chemicals used in production, etc. Take cotton, a very high demand for water in growing and in processing. Fertilisers, chemicals, exploitation of workforce, etc. Which is worse? My merino good for less than 2 years or helly Hanson life polypropylene top that's going to outlive me at this rate?
Then again this consumerism of buying / replacing kit for sustainable reasons. My view is consider the issues when you really need to replace kit but until then repair as long as possible. I've still got a paramo jacket from the mid 90s. It's still doing a job if in wanted to. I replaced it before sustainability and plastic use reduction became fashionable. I still see old hikers in similarly old paramo. This imho is better. This kit is still made so it's better to keep using it than throwing it away for more sustainable, new items.
It is this reason why I don't find these sorts of threads to be very good. It's about buying stuff to cater for one aspect when you probably don't have a need for that kit it is consumerism which is also a part of the greater problem. Perhaps this thread should run along the lines of..."my goretex jacket is worn out such that I can see pinholes through the fabric. I can't make it last any more. What sustainable and environmentally friendly kit should I consider i replace it? ". Not "I've just got a new wool blanket instead of my down sleeping bag and I found a company making canvas and leather rucksacks, I'm replacing my osprey rucksack with it." It seems to me that the outdoors types make very sustainability obsessed consumers at times. Anyone see a contradiction there? It's like London fashion show putting on sustainably produced clothing only for it to be worn for as long as it's in season!
I have a mate with a karrimor rucksack with the old gold guarantee. It is probably 40 plus. He kept sending it off to karrimor with a copy of his original tags containing the guarantee wording and a copy of his original till receipt. They repaired it and sent it back washed, patched and repaired. He kept hoping they'd give him a brand new rucksack to stop him doing this. They didn't. Lost contact and sports direct I suspect have bought him off by now. It was a very comfortable carry with even heavy loads but weighed not that much over 1kg of at all. In fact a quote lightweight, full carry weight rucksack because it dated from before rucksacks got fat with unnecessary features. I bet that one is very low impact due to it having such a long life and made in the UK!
Basically buying plastic is not the only demon for the planet, carbon footprint, water usage / stress, lifetime of the product, chemicals used in production, etc. Take cotton, a very high demand for water in growing and in processing. Fertilisers, chemicals, exploitation of workforce, etc. Which is worse? My merino good for less than 2 years or helly Hanson life polypropylene top that's going to outlive me at this rate?
Then again this consumerism of buying / replacing kit for sustainable reasons. My view is consider the issues when you really need to replace kit but until then repair as long as possible. I've still got a paramo jacket from the mid 90s. It's still doing a job if in wanted to. I replaced it before sustainability and plastic use reduction became fashionable. I still see old hikers in similarly old paramo. This imho is better. This kit is still made so it's better to keep using it than throwing it away for more sustainable, new items.
It is this reason why I don't find these sorts of threads to be very good. It's about buying stuff to cater for one aspect when you probably don't have a need for that kit it is consumerism which is also a part of the greater problem. Perhaps this thread should run along the lines of..."my goretex jacket is worn out such that I can see pinholes through the fabric. I can't make it last any more. What sustainable and environmentally friendly kit should I consider i replace it? ". Not "I've just got a new wool blanket instead of my down sleeping bag and I found a company making canvas and leather rucksacks, I'm replacing my osprey rucksack with it." It seems to me that the outdoors types make very sustainability obsessed consumers at times. Anyone see a contradiction there? It's like London fashion show putting on sustainably produced clothing only for it to be worn for as long as it's in season!
For what reason ? If you have the items you need and some are plastic. Then if they are not disposable, which of course as kit they would not be there is no reason not to use them. In fact better to use them rather than dispose of them.
Just my thoughts
Not disagreeing with you. My observations: I see people purchasing ridiculous amounts of kit half of which they never use. The most sustainable way is to use what we already have. I buy once and I am the last owner of pretty much everything I purchase. Planet in peril or no I have always made things, mended and made do. The other thing is that this is a bush craft forum. We can learn how to make most of the things we use for camping anyway. Much better fun, better for learning, better for the spirit and better for the planet. Rant over lol x
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One of the present buzz words seems to be micro plastics. Some time ago I saw a test made with various "plastic" outdoor clothing. The problem was with discontinuous fibers like fleece and stapple yarn products. Continuous fiber products gave an unmeasurable amount. The test was done by washing and then filtering.
I think some are missing the point of my origional post. I never said I was getting rid of the items I already have. It was more of a thought/awareness exercise.
I do think that when items do need replacing that I would like to have more natural products, rather than just buy the same old stuff if it was possible.
I already have most of what I need, both in items or clothing.
I just came up against replacing shelter, ie tarp and hammock, air mat, and sleeping bag. There just don't seem to be many alternatives out there. I wondered if the hive mind could come up with viable alternatives that don't weigh half a ton.
Obviously one could use wool blankets, canvas tarps and sheepskins, but they are a) expensive, b)weigh a ton.
So perhaps we can start thinking how this could happen rather than just decide there are no alternatives. And everything is just going to carry on as it is forever.
I do realise that many people try to rationalise their consumption of dwindling and destructive oil recourses, but we have to start thinking of alternatives now, rather than wait for the inevitable bullet to hit.
I'm not trying to preach, just attempting forward thinking.
Remember, I'm looking for alternatives when it comes to shelter and sleeping comfortably, not to preach eradication of plastics, (though that would be no bad thing in my opinion.)
I'm old enough to remember before everything we ate and drank was covered in the stuff and what we wore was a plastic derivative.
So it's not undoable.
I dont think that for a minute. I read your post carefully. I was just putting forward my own views on the subject, Have less , make more. good way to go. x
For sure, I Iike to make my own things too, (food, clothing and bushcraft gear) and I make a lot of my own stuff, or buy second hand, recently grey cat helped me to make a new belt for an old, second hand rucksack, so it was useable for me, so repurposeing rather than buying new is also high on my list.
I can't remember the last time I bought new clothes, (apart from my swandri coat last year. )I've worn it in everyday life too, rather than just as a bushcraft item.
It's as I say, an exercise in thinking plastic free, attempting to reduce or reuse as much as I can.
It's not easy, try looking at one room, let's say a bathroom. Remove anything that has plastic in or on it, and see what's left. We are conditioned not to see it. It's really eye opening!
I'm realy trying to be more aware, so I applied this exercise to my bushcraft gear. Hence this thread.
I'm not trying to argue the rights and wrongs of it.
I'm old enough to remember when 'plastic' was bakelite, and casein ( plastic made from milk...buttons, etc., used to be made from it) and otherwise wasn't very good stuff at all. Those early plastics decayed and crumbled.
We got better at making it and now it's ubiquitous, it's the ultimate material, we can even cook with it (silicon, polysiloxane) and I don't think we can really do without it.
I filled a hot water bottle and tucked it into my bed not twenty minutes ago...the bottle is silicon the bung is plastic. My childhood one was rubber with a brass screw thread.
Can you imagine how many rubber plantations we'd need to grow to replace all the plastic we now use, just for something like bungs and lids ? It's not just a case of swapping one for t'other.
Plastic is in everything these days.
I think that genie is well and truly out of the lamp.
Somehow plastic, even though it's so incredibly useful, doesn't seem 'real' though. We are scornful of it; 'plastic surgery', 'plastic tatt', ; yet from toilet seats to window frames, it's awfully useful stuff !
I think we need to be better at using up, and incredibly so much better at recycling than we are just now. We need to stop being a 'disposable' society really.....well, world.
How we do that though ?
I was an archaeologist, and this past few decades has littered the stratigraphy of the world in an irredeemable fashion. We are the Plastic People, this is the Plastic Age.
Be interesting to see where we go from here.
M
We got better at making it and now it's ubiquitous, it's the ultimate material, we can even cook with it (silicon, polysiloxane) and I don't think we can really do without it.
I filled a hot water bottle and tucked it into my bed not twenty minutes ago...the bottle is silicon the bung is plastic. My childhood one was rubber with a brass screw thread.
Can you imagine how many rubber plantations we'd need to grow to replace all the plastic we now use, just for something like bungs and lids ? It's not just a case of swapping one for t'other.
Plastic is in everything these days.
I think that genie is well and truly out of the lamp.
Somehow plastic, even though it's so incredibly useful, doesn't seem 'real' though. We are scornful of it; 'plastic surgery', 'plastic tatt', ; yet from toilet seats to window frames, it's awfully useful stuff !
I think we need to be better at using up, and incredibly so much better at recycling than we are just now. We need to stop being a 'disposable' society really.....well, world.
How we do that though ?
I was an archaeologist, and this past few decades has littered the stratigraphy of the world in an irredeemable fashion. We are the Plastic People, this is the Plastic Age.
Be interesting to see where we go from here.
M
There is some research done that identified a significant amount of the micro plastics found in fish caught in the sea. It was actually from vehicle tyres. Now how do you stop that? We will need a lot of Ash plantations to make enough wooden wheels! Lol!
Now that adds another element, how plastic free is the supply chain for your plastic free solutions? Not very if there is transportation at any stage of production.
I'm afraid that in the modern world there is no such thing as completely plastic free. Kind of like being vegan when pretty much animal products get into all supply chains at some point. Whether it's in the dyes used or what, it's there somewhere unless you make everything from scratch using known sources.
This is why I think we need to look to reduced plastic use not plastic free. We can do one which makes a difference, the other is fantasy or delusion.
Now that adds another element, how plastic free is the supply chain for your plastic free solutions? Not very if there is transportation at any stage of production.
I'm afraid that in the modern world there is no such thing as completely plastic free. Kind of like being vegan when pretty much animal products get into all supply chains at some point. Whether it's in the dyes used or what, it's there somewhere unless you make everything from scratch using known sources.
This is why I think we need to look to reduced plastic use not plastic free. We can do one which makes a difference, the other is fantasy or delusion.
I fully agree , plastic is a great product we just need to limit it's use and learn to recycle it properly.
It's true what you say about the tyres , car tyres are the most polluting item on a vehicle as modern Euro 6 engines put much less pollution out than older engines .
Even electric cars aren't pollution free .
