Thanks for that Sapmel it was interseting.spamel said:
I acn't wait for the tutorial on these tankards either.
Next seasons leather tankards.
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I acn't wait for the tutorial on these tankards either.
Hi Eric, all
Inspired by your tankard I've made a 1/2 pint cup which looks pretty nice but there is a problem with the main seam. I stitched it damp as I've only got straight needles and thought the leather would be more pliable that way and all was fine until it dried out, then the leather shrank away at the seam leaving gaps!
What to do? Well I concluded that I simply hadn't pulled it tight enough when stitching so I pulled up the slack all the way along and re-finished the end - lovely. Next I sewed the base in, all fairly good (but fiddly), but the shape wasn't great, so like a fool I soaked the whole thing and formed it over the glass I'd based the design on - being careful not to wedge it in to tight so as not to split the seam again.
All was fine for a day or so and I checked it regularly whilst it was drying, but right in the last stages of drying it has shrunk apart again - only a little this time, and probably small enough for the wax to seal it, but I'm not sure how durable it will be.
Have you ever come across this problem? Am I simply not being forceful enough with my stitching or maybe the stitches are too big/wide - they look similar to yours!
I was thinking of putting it on a form and gently pounding the seam to expand the leather and therefore close it up before waxing - what do you think?
The sample 'shot cup' I made out of some old scrap was fine, but the leather is a lot softer so I guess it hasn't shrunk with quite so much force.
Many thanks,
Inspired by your tankard I've made a 1/2 pint cup which looks pretty nice but there is a problem with the main seam. I stitched it damp as I've only got straight needles and thought the leather would be more pliable that way and all was fine until it dried out, then the leather shrank away at the seam leaving gaps!
What to do? Well I concluded that I simply hadn't pulled it tight enough when stitching so I pulled up the slack all the way along and re-finished the end - lovely. Next I sewed the base in, all fairly good (but fiddly), but the shape wasn't great, so like a fool I soaked the whole thing and formed it over the glass I'd based the design on - being careful not to wedge it in to tight so as not to split the seam again.
All was fine for a day or so and I checked it regularly whilst it was drying, but right in the last stages of drying it has shrunk apart again - only a little this time, and probably small enough for the wax to seal it, but I'm not sure how durable it will be.
Have you ever come across this problem? Am I simply not being forceful enough with my stitching or maybe the stitches are too big/wide - they look similar to yours!
I was thinking of putting it on a form and gently pounding the seam to expand the leather and therefore close it up before waxing - what do you think?
The sample 'shot cup' I made out of some old scrap was fine, but the leather is a lot softer so I guess it hasn't shrunk with quite so much force.
Many thanks,
Big John said:
Hi John. The problem is that you soaked it to start with. Leather shrinks when it dries (that's why indians tied a leather band round the foreheads of their captives as a form of torture). All I do with mine is lightly dampen it so I can mark up the stitch holes and create the general shape.
I cut out the main body shape. I then dampen it and run the wheel up both edges, starting from the top of the flask so the stitches line up. I then let it almost dry. When I say almost, I mean I let it return to it's natural colour but keep checking it. To check it, you place the leather against your cheek. If it looks dry but feels cold to the touch then it's ready to tool with whatever design you choose. At this stage if I want to leave it for any length of time, I place it in a plastic food storage bag and leave it folded over to exclude any air.
At this level of moisture content, the surface will take an impression, but it won't shrink any more. It will still be supple enough to work though. I tool the leather with the pattern/design I have chosen, and when I'm happy with it I use the curved awl and push holes down the sides that I previously marked with the stitch wheel.
Then I form the tankard roughly to shape and starting at the top of the vessle, I start stitching, using a saddle stitch and waxed linen thread. I stitch all the way down to the base of the tankard then go back on my stitches for four holes so the thread locks tight. I then cut the thread off flush to the leather so there is no knot.
You'll find if you do it this way the leather won't shrink, but it will still be soft enough so you're not fighting it. One thing is to make sure you pull the stitches really tight after each stitch. When I say really tight, I mean wrapped around your fingers and pulled hard. I have to put elastoplasts on my fingers before I start each day because I need to pull on those stitches so hard, the waxed thread will cut right into my fingers if I don't. That's the secret. Make the seam so tight that liquid just can't get out. The waxing of the piece just reinforces the seal afterwards.
Hope this helps. In the case of the one you've made, If it were me, I'd cut it open again and make a vambrace from it then start again on another cup.
Good luck,
Eric
Thanks Eric, that's great. I think I'll give this one a go and when it starts to leak I'll make another and relegate this one to a pen pot - I'm just starting a leather bottle at the moment so I don't want to lose momentum with that.
When you get the chance, can you stick up a photo of your curved awl and needles please - so I can see just how curved they are. I bought a curved awl from somewhere (bowstock I think it was) which I've curved further 'cos it didn't seem to be the right shape to me, but I think it needs a bit more!
Many thanks for your excellent advice!
When you get the chance, can you stick up a photo of your curved awl and needles please - so I can see just how curved they are. I bought a curved awl from somewhere (bowstock I think it was) which I've curved further 'cos it didn't seem to be the right shape to me, but I think it needs a bit more!
Many thanks for your excellent advice!
Finished mine today. In the end I tightened up the joint by pulling each of the threads tight in turn using my curved awl to pick them up, and then re-tied the excess at the end. At the end/bottom I've put holes straight through the leather and tied them together behind the rim under the base of the cup.
Waxed OK and has survived a 30 min soak test, so I reckon it'll be ok for a while at least! You can't see from the pic, but it's a bit wonky, will have to work on my pattern a bit to get the curves right.
Waxed OK and has survived a 30 min soak test, so I reckon it'll be ok for a while at least! You can't see from the pic, but it's a bit wonky, will have to work on my pattern a bit to get the curves right.
Thats a nice little cup John.
Eric, a question for you mate, i've just bought a curved awl so, i too, can try my hand at replicating your work. Only thing is, is that the awl has a rhomboid cross-section and seems very difficult to push through the leather. Have i bought the wrong type, or do i just need to take a stone to it and sharpen it up a bit?
Cheers
Baggins
Eric, a question for you mate, i've just bought a curved awl so, i too, can try my hand at replicating your work. Only thing is, is that the awl has a rhomboid cross-section and seems very difficult to push through the leather. Have i bought the wrong type, or do i just need to take a stone to it and sharpen it up a bit?
Cheers
Baggins
Thanks,baggins said:
My awl was an odd shape when I got it as well, I ended up filing it down to a much thinner pointed round cross-section before I used it - don't know if that's right or not, but the way it was, it was never going to go through anything!
The rhomboid cross section curved awl is really awful to work with. I have a drawer full of them when the leather shop mistook my order (either that or they offloaded them onto me). I use a flattened end with a rounded profile so it slices into the leather and parts the fibres rather then ripping through them. A little bit of work with a stone to flatten them off a bit will make a big difference.
The best way to get the curves right is to use a pen and a bit of string. Attach the string to a solid surface with a drawing pin. Tie the other end to a pen. At a distance of between two and three feet you'll get a decent tankard profile. Place a bit of paper under the pen and scribe a short arc on the paper. Tie the pen further up the string (the height you want the tankard to be) and scribe another arc. Then holding the string taught at one end of the arc, make a mark where the string crosses both arcs. Join the marks. Do the same on the other side. The distance between the ends of the larger arc is the circumferance of the base. To find the diameter of the base, take the distance of the cercumferance and divide by (Pi) 3.14. This will give the diameter. To find the radius, divide the diameter by 2. This is the distance you set your compass to and draw a circle. This circle will fit the base of your tankard when the sides are sewn together.
Anyway, I'll cover all of it in more detail when I do the tutorial. It's just finding the time to make a tankard and take photos as well.
Here's a tankard I've just done for Aliwren, and the front of the leather flask I'm currently working on.
Eric
The best way to get the curves right is to use a pen and a bit of string. Attach the string to a solid surface with a drawing pin. Tie the other end to a pen. At a distance of between two and three feet you'll get a decent tankard profile. Place a bit of paper under the pen and scribe a short arc on the paper. Tie the pen further up the string (the height you want the tankard to be) and scribe another arc. Then holding the string taught at one end of the arc, make a mark where the string crosses both arcs. Join the marks. Do the same on the other side. The distance between the ends of the larger arc is the circumferance of the base. To find the diameter of the base, take the distance of the cercumferance and divide by (Pi) 3.14. This will give the diameter. To find the radius, divide the diameter by 2. This is the distance you set your compass to and draw a circle. This circle will fit the base of your tankard when the sides are sewn together.
Anyway, I'll cover all of it in more detail when I do the tutorial. It's just finding the time to make a tankard and take photos as well.
Here's a tankard I've just done for Aliwren, and the front of the leather flask I'm currently working on.
Eric
As with any waxed leather container be it tankard, cup or water bottle, there are a few do's and don'ts.
Do, rinse in cold water and allow to air dry.
Do, use lukewarm water and a mild washing up liquid if heavily stained. Rinse in clean cold water imediately afterwards.
Don't wash with hot water.
Don't put it in the dishwasher.
The waxing makes the leather extremely hard, and very resiliant to knocks and bumps, but it may distort or collapse if sat upon, or if it gets run over by a car. In which case, it can be reshaped by placing in a hot oven for five minutes to soften the wax, then the leather can be pulled back into shape and allowed to cool again. Once cooled, the wax resets and the leather goes hard once more. Any leaks along the seams can be sealed with a little melted beeswax painted along the inside of the seam, or in the case of the flask, poured into the opening and allowed to run round the inner seam by rotating the flask from side to side.
Eric
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Heathenpeddler
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I'm a bit like a worn, tangled piece of string at the moment - I mean I'm a frayed knot.
I just haven't had the time, and with the net making kit group buy, I'm even further behind than before. I was going to do the tutorial at the Chopwell festival this weekend if I could find someone to take the photos for me as I worked but from an open invitation to all here, nobody it seems is coming. It clashes with the meet at Delamere. If I wasn't committed to Chopwell I'd have been at Delamere too and we could have done the tutorial there as a live demo too.
Never mind though, it'll get done when I have a few spare hours, just don't know when that'll be.
Eric
I just haven't had the time, and with the net making kit group buy, I'm even further behind than before. I was going to do the tutorial at the Chopwell festival this weekend if I could find someone to take the photos for me as I worked but from an open invitation to all here, nobody it seems is coming. It clashes with the meet at Delamere. If I wasn't committed to Chopwell I'd have been at Delamere too and we could have done the tutorial there as a live demo too.
Never mind though, it'll get done when I have a few spare hours, just don't know when that'll be.
Eric
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