bogflogger said:
Because Bog they are traditional methods,practiced for centuries.
In other countries we could claim "aboriginal hunting rights".
Not,alas,in the UK
Heard about pike snaring?
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Because Bog they are traditional methods,practiced for centuries.
In other countries we could claim "aboriginal hunting rights".
Not,alas,in the UK
I would say the reason why I am so fond of discussing such methods is that they are generally very effective. Hook and line is generally not.
Tickeling trout require no effort in making tools and is because of that survival fishing at it's peak.
Tickeling trout require no effort in making tools and is because of that survival fishing at it's peak.
BorderReiver said:
So how come, that illegal fishing methods are "acceptable" here regardless of the massive injuries they cause to fish that escape?
Where are the threads about Gin Traps?
Would a thread about amputating a live deers leg be acceptable?
There is NO difference.
Bogflogger
I have harmed very few fish that has gotten away with any traditional equipment. Have you ever thought of that many of the fish caught and realeased die because of energy draining and exhaustion. The same with fish that stays on all the way, but frees itself right before landing.
I have harmed very few fish that has gotten away with any traditional equipment. Have you ever thought of that many of the fish caught and realeased die because of energy draining and exhaustion. The same with fish that stays on all the way, but frees itself right before landing.
Even though I have posted about tickling, I have never done it and wouldn't do so unless I was in a survival situation next to a river packed with trout! That doesn't mean I won't discuss the technique though, it's not as if we are planning anything illegal. As long as everyone understands the legal side of things then there shouldn't be any problems.
Bogflogger,
You are out of order there. Torus is discussing something that is legal where he lives. I can't think that snaring a fish is any more likely to cause injury than snaring a rabit (which IS legal here). Less so in fact as the trapper is present throughout. Most of the legal fishing mechanisms in this country strike me as no more humane!
Red
You are out of order there. Torus is discussing something that is legal where he lives. I can't think that snaring a fish is any more likely to cause injury than snaring a rabit (which IS legal here). Less so in fact as the trapper is present throughout. Most of the legal fishing mechanisms in this country strike me as no more humane!
Red
The comment has already been made, and I don't approve of the use of methods that injure any creature, but I would add that the fish that escapes with a hook in, or ripped out of, it's mouth is severely injured too, and that's legal catch.
You are quite right Bogflogger, guddling for trout is illegal in the UK; despite the fact that it causes no injury unless it is actually caught for dinner.
I'm sorry that this thread is offensive to you, personally I think it's been taken quite nicely off topic to discuss non mangle, strangle, dangle or tangle methods of fishing, that theoretically, one could apply in the Falkland Islands.
I'd have been the first one to come down on anyone trapping any beast in an inhumane manner.
Cheers,
Toddy
You are quite right Bogflogger, guddling for trout is illegal in the UK; despite the fact that it causes no injury unless it is actually caught for dinner.
I'm sorry that this thread is offensive to you, personally I think it's been taken quite nicely off topic to discuss non mangle, strangle, dangle or tangle methods of fishing, that theoretically, one could apply in the Falkland Islands.
I'd have been the first one to come down on anyone trapping any beast in an inhumane manner.
Cheers,
Toddy
I am fully aware of fish exhausting themselves (I am a Pike and Barbel Angler) and I am afraid that do not see your point.
An exhausted fish WILL be supported until it reoxygenates and can swim unaided.
A fish that has been inexpertly Clubbed/Snared/Netted/Shot is beyond help due to the damage to it's internal organs and will die a lingering death.
So much for having respect for Nature.
To fish using these methods is ignorant barbarism.....especially when there are alternative methods available, that do not kill fish should they manage to escape.
An exhausted fish WILL be supported until it reoxygenates and can swim unaided.
A fish that has been inexpertly Clubbed/Snared/Netted/Shot is beyond help due to the damage to it's internal organs and will die a lingering death.
So much for having respect for Nature.
To fish using these methods is ignorant barbarism.....especially when there are alternative methods available, that do not kill fish should they manage to escape.
That's nature, I am afraid. If I want fish, I don't see any wrong in fishing them in the most effective way.
Still, with catch and release. Are you aware that the fish actually wastes vital energy on your fun? It may die very slowly because YOU tipped it over the edge!
Still, with catch and release. Are you aware that the fish actually wastes vital energy on your fun? It may die very slowly because YOU tipped it over the edge!
No mate....if you know what you are doing with a rod and line AND support a fish until it can recover then it will not die from exhaustion.
Maybe fish are simply disposable commodities to you, but some of us actually have some respect for them.
Maybe fish are simply disposable commodities to you, but some of us actually have some respect for them.
The point BF is that the damaged done by barbed hooks is often horrific! You have your sport - all well and good. The damage done by anglers (don't get me started on the decline of swans from the shot you guys claimed for years "did no harm") is incalculable. Angling is the cruellest of all blood sports. The logic of sticking a barbed hook through the flesh of a living creature to test your own skill and then returning it to the water to die of exhaustion and infection (and yes, I have seen this happen, I have also seen hooks torn out sideways by anglers )escapes me. Hunt want you eat. Eat what you kill. Everything else is disgusting. Stocking water with creatures to satisfy the blood lust of anglers (and attacking creatures that prey on fish to keep them there which anglers are known to do) - thats real cruelty.
Sorry fellah - you hae no moral high ground here - quite the reverse.
I expect to be modded here but this burns me up
Red
)escapes me. Hunt want you eat. Eat what you kill. Everything else is disgusting. Stocking water with creatures to satisfy the blood lust of anglers (and attacking creatures that prey on fish to keep them there which anglers are known to do) - thats real cruelty.Sorry fellah - you hae no moral high ground here - quite the reverse.
I expect to be modded here but this burns me up
Red
I cannot see how tickling is barbaric, the fish is tossed onto the bank and then dispatched in a humane manner, allegedly ahem..!
I would say a barbaric way of fishing would be to introduce a poison into the water that eliminates oxygen bringing the fish to the surface where they are easily collected, as seen on Bushcraft and Les Hiddens' Bushtucker man but these methods haven't been spoken ill of.
Of course, all animals should be despatched humanely and quickly, anything not used should be either buried or left for the scavengers and I would expect most people here would do that. It is the most sensible thing to do.
I would say a barbaric way of fishing would be to introduce a poison into the water that eliminates oxygen bringing the fish to the surface where they are easily collected, as seen on Bushcraft and Les Hiddens' Bushtucker man but these methods haven't been spoken ill of.
Of course, all animals should be despatched humanely and quickly, anything not used should be either buried or left for the scavengers and I would expect most people here would do that. It is the most sensible thing to do.
bogflogger said:
If you're into the welfare of fish you don't fish full stop. If you're concerned with not causing unnecessary suffering then the fish you catch you eat. If you couldn't care less, you catch fish, tire them out and then release them so you can do it again next week.
The laws concerning fishing technique in this country are there to make it easier to spot someone doing it without a licence i.e. folks traipsing about next to rivers with rods can be stopped reasonably....folks walking next to rivers can't so you ban the kit-less method to protect the fishing mafia. They have nothing to do with ethics. As has been said tickling/guddling is probably the most humane way to catch fish. Any other method will include risks of escaping harmed fish.
Your point is taken Bog.
These methods are illegal in the UK and no one here would condone their use.
However,other countries and cultures have different ways of doing things and we should not pass judgement on them IMO.
BTW,again IMO,gudling would seem to me to be the least harmful method of taking a fish.
These methods are illegal in the UK and no one here would condone their use.
However,other countries and cultures have different ways of doing things and we should not pass judgement on them IMO.
BTW,again IMO,gudling would seem to me to be the least harmful method of taking a fish.
bogflogger said:
Cos its not the discussing bit thats illegal, it only gets illegal when you do it.
Of course I never went tickling trout in the pools when the river had dried up when I was a nipper and neither has my mate
Right then:
1. This thread is about snaring fish - which causes considerable damage to their skin, letting in infection if they do survive and escape, plus making them more vunerable to being eaten alive by parasites.
2. Snaring fish - crushes their swim bladder and other internal organs and skeleton. - If it does not kill them outright they are dead anyway even if they escape. - This is a Completely Irresponsible method of fishing.
3. Most Freshwater Anglers now use BARBLESS hooks, and have done so for the last decade.
4. BR - I really cannot see how you can condone crushing a fish in a snare, yet get so incensed by the least harmful method of fishing- using a hook of the appropriate size and pattern.....you are talking nonsense!
5. BR - Most Medieval Village ponds were dug as Carp ponds for food stocks, not as somewhere for Mums and Kids to go to feed Ducks, so don't make out that Anglers invented this practice for fun.
6. There have been several comments about fish slinking off and dying after being caught on rod tackle........Again this is utter nonsense.
IN FACT, there have been MANY instances where the same fish has been caught again within 15 Mins.
1. This thread is about snaring fish - which causes considerable damage to their skin, letting in infection if they do survive and escape, plus making them more vunerable to being eaten alive by parasites.
2. Snaring fish - crushes their swim bladder and other internal organs and skeleton. - If it does not kill them outright they are dead anyway even if they escape. - This is a Completely Irresponsible method of fishing.
3. Most Freshwater Anglers now use BARBLESS hooks, and have done so for the last decade.
4. BR - I really cannot see how you can condone crushing a fish in a snare, yet get so incensed by the least harmful method of fishing- using a hook of the appropriate size and pattern.....you are talking nonsense!
5. BR - Most Medieval Village ponds were dug as Carp ponds for food stocks, not as somewhere for Mums and Kids to go to feed Ducks, so don't make out that Anglers invented this practice for fun.
6. There have been several comments about fish slinking off and dying after being caught on rod tackle........Again this is utter nonsense.
IN FACT, there have been MANY instances where the same fish has been caught again within 15 Mins.
Montivagus said:
Kindly quote me in context.
Furthermore, I suggest that it is you who does not care about the welfare of the fish.
Deep breaths chaps.
Two deeply entrenched points of view here,not much is going to be gained by a slagging match.
Two deeply entrenched points of view here,not much is going to be gained by a slagging match.
Bog
Since you are so on us. Do you have any evidence that fish frequently escape these snares?
Regardless, pain is an integral part of nature. You can't eliminate it, it appears in another place, like fish farms... As long as the resource is abundant, I claim the right to use whatever my ancestors may have used to procure my meal.
Since you are so on us. Do you have any evidence that fish frequently escape these snares?
Regardless, pain is an integral part of nature. You can't eliminate it, it appears in another place, like fish farms... As long as the resource is abundant, I claim the right to use whatever my ancestors may have used to procure my meal.
Torjusg, I have no issues with you fishing in your own Country using whatever methods are Legal.
The fact of the matter is, that in the UK this method is Illegal and I will not be shouted down for saying so.
There is also a huge amount of emotive and ill informed nonsense being spouted as facts here, by people who are obviously not Anglers.
The fact of the matter is, that in the UK this method is Illegal and I will not be shouted down for saying so.
There is also a huge amount of emotive and ill informed nonsense being spouted as facts here, by people who are obviously not Anglers.
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