Fjallraven and Nikwax

[baggins]

hey all,
being a serious Fjallraven fan, i thought i'd share my experience with using Nikwax's Wax Cotton Proof liquid.
I, like a lot of folk, struggle with the G1000 wax in getting a decent application, especially on pre-shaped knees and pleats and hoods etc. While mooching around my local Goatdoors recently, i noticed Nikwax did a spray wax for cotton, (aimed at the Barbour type jackets). so i thought i'd give it a go on an old pair of greenland trousers.

Now, it is a lot thinner than the G1000, but it is much easier to apply (if you use a sponge to spread it evenly). it dries pretty quickly but does leave a bit of an odd smell (more like Barbours own thorn proof dressing).
Now for the testing. and what better to test it than what we've had recently.

I have to say i was very impressed. The wax held off the rain for a good while on the trousers and the knees and seat which got extra treatment kept my knees and crackers pretty dry.

Next was to try it on my Sarek jacket. I've had real trouble getting it to withstand even a light rain shower using G1000, there is always a spot that i've missed and it does make the jacket feel more like a proper wax jacket.
Now using the Nikwax, i've been out several times in good wind and rain and have come home totally dry. with the added bonus that the material doesn't have the stiffness associated with normal wax coatings. the fabric seems to remain soft and flexible.

Now, i don't know what effect the Nikwax will have on the G1000 fabric and whether it will wash out as easily as G1000 wax, but initial impressions are very good and i shall keep using it for the time being.

As an aside, the G1000 still a more robot wax and i shall probably still use it on high wear areas such as knees and bum.

i don't have any affiliation with either Fjallraven (unless they want to offer me a job, lol!) or Nikwax (Ditto!)

Hope this is of use to somebody.

 

[Sparky750]

One thing that's always put me off fjallraven is the waxing, using the nikwax is a brilliant idea I may have another look at buying some now thanks for the heads up.

 

[barbourdurham]

i been looking at the Sarek jacket. whats yr thoughts?

 

[SGL70]

I also use the Nikwax-Greenlandwax combo and it works really well. Good tip imo.

I have been using my Sarek jacket for 8 months now - it might be on the expensive side, but I couldnt be happier with it. I am wondering how the velcro on the sleeves will fare in the long run, though...But new velcro can be fitted I suppose.
I use an XXL (1.95m/115kg) and I have no problem in getting shirt, thick woolen sweater and a thin down jacket to fit underneath...and it doesnt feel like wearing a tent with less layers. My EDC (except when it gets below -25C)
Enough pockets and they are good size-wise imo.

 

[baggins]

As above. I pretty much live in my Sarek. it's not too bulky, it's comfortable. the pocket layout is excellent and the hood really does work well.

 

[Tim B]

A timely post, baggins. Thank you. The Sarek jacket is the first piece of Fjallraven that I have ever bought and I am feeling a pretty disappointed that it seems to wet out at the slightest sign of rain. Fjallraven claim that G1000 is water resistant but I have found it anything but.
I really like the feel of the jacket and the design is great. It is the sort of jacket that I would pretty much live in but even after numerous layers of wax the water is still coming in, the hood also being a particular problem.
I did not buy it as a waterproof but would have thought that a much lauded outdoor material would at least be showerproof. I had thought of washing it in Nikwax Cotton Proofer, like I used to do with my old Dpm poly cotton jacket. Have you ever tried this?
Also did you need to wash the Greenland wax out before using the Nikwax spray or did you just put on top?
Regards
Tim B

 

[baggins]

hey Tim,
i did have a similar problem when i first used G1000. I did find that after i had applied several layers, it did start to become water resistant, but the water still sealed in, especially around the awkward areas, such as the hood and pleats. i have found using the Nikwax, that the Sarek is a lot more waterproof.

i did speak to a guy in the Stockholm Fjallraven flag store late last year, who said that they really aren't designed for UK rain, more the Scandinavian rain (i.e., Snow! lol). he reckoned that you should always wear a woollen jumper underneath them so that any moisture that comes through is absorbed. and i reckon the same goes for the trousers. in our recent biblical flooding, i wore a thin pair of Aclima light wool leggins underneath, and found i never felt particularly wet or even damp, and always warm.
I've never tried the wash in cotton proofer, but i should imagine that it wouldn't be as effective. But as to adding the Nikwax onto of the G1000, i use both, as they both wax, and the G1000 is more durable, so around the knees and the bum, i treat them first with G1000 then do the whole trouser in Nikwax. for the Jacket, i do the shoulders in G1000 then all over in Nikwax.
Hope this helps.
Baggins

 

[Tim B]

Thanks baggins, I will persevere with the waxing etc as I do like the jacket. I can see the sense of wearing wearing wool underneath, and maybe a wool hat to stop that damp head feeling. I have also polar proofed a couple of fleeces to wear underneath to see whether that is any use. Have considered teaming it up with a paramo fleece as they are supposed to be water repellent. It has also occurred to me that it would be an ideal top layer over my buffalo sp6 if it was really foul as it would dry quickly and also breathe better than an out and out waterproof. As I said I didn't buy it as a waterproof, I prefer to wear poly cotton as I find it more comfortable day to day, I 'm just surprised that the G1000 isn't really even showerproof, surely Sweden has showers just like us. You can't imagine that everyone out trekking etc. all just stop and change jackets or pull out ponchos. I guess it is the fabric's breathability that really wins in a very cold snowy climate. Thanks once again.
Regards
Tim B

 

[Sparky750]

This wetting out is one of the reasons I've also been looking at hill trek cotton annology sounds like the perfect balance of paramo waterproof/breathability but ventile tough outer the problem is I'm nowhere near them to have a look see before ordering. Every time I see the fjallraven kit in the shops I can feel my wallet starting to glow it does seem bomb proof.

 

[Ooops]

I had thought of washing it in Nikwax Cotton Proofer, like I used to do with my old Dpm poly cotton jacket.
Tim B

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but my question seems to fit quite well here.

After initially planning on getting the same army surplus smock, I came across the Fjallraven gear and more or less persuaded myself that a G1000 jacket would be a justifiable upgrade. Having since read numerous reports about the G1000 not even being showerproof I'm rethinking it.

My question is "Given cost against performance is a Fjallraven jacket a worthwhile upgrade over an army smock that's been treated with Nikwax or Diver Dave's waterproofing?

 

[Tim B]

My question is "Given cost against performance is a Fjallraven jacket a worthwhile upgrade over an army smock that's been treated with Nikwax or Diver Dave's waterproofing?

That's a really difficult one to answer. I really like my Fjallraven and it gets worn all year round. I wore it this morning for an early morning dog walk with a t-shirt underneath and then wore it to work as I was taking my class down to the woods. I suppose I could have quite easily worn my old dpm jacket, but that does have certain connotations attached to it(rightly or wrongly).
It took me ages to pull the trigger and order the Fjallraven because it was so expensive (even though I got it at roughly half price). What I would say about it is that does dry very quickly and depending on what you wear underneath is quite versatile. In purely financial terms you probably couldn't justify it over an army smock but I like wearing mine and I reckon I will be using it for a good few years. (If you do decide to go for it check the sizing , it seems depend on which coat you go for).
Other people on here talk about Ventile being a good bet but I don't have any experience of that.
Regards
Tim

 

[Janne]

The G1000 fabric is not water proof. It is wind proof. To get it water resistant you need to wax it.
Who said it was water proof? Not Fjallraven!

 

[baggins]

My jacket (as mentioned above), holds up very well to all but the worst weather. The mix of G1000 and Nikwax works very well and, in conjunction with a wool under layer, i don't get any damper than my old double layer ventile.
Yes, FR are very expensive but, i like the fit and the practicality of their traditional range. i'm sure they aren't for everybody, but i like it.

 

[Nice65]

I can't comment on the waterproofing, but I think Fjallraven trade on their name to an extent. It's not the first time I've heard the "it's not really made for that type of use" line, it applied to a rucksack that someone here wanted to professionally review, Fjallraven said it wasn't really for hard outdoor use. So, a trendy school bag for the kids, or occasional walk from the Range Rover to the pub garden type thing presumably.

I have a mixed tale to tell. I bought, second-hand, but pretty much as new, an Anorak 8. First time I wore it in fine drizzle, the leather toggles leached brown dye into the cloth. It stained right through to my clothes beneath. Tha jacket was ruined, like black tea stains.

I contacted the UK dealer and as they're only 45 mins down the road, drove it over. I was asked for proof of purchase, and I said I didn't have it, but the toggles shouldn't leach dye whether I had proof or not. He agreed and I left it with him, and a brand new one arrived a few days later. So far so good.

First thing I did was wet one of the toggles and wrap it tightly in tissue paper to see if it leached. Excellent.

Tried it on, pulled the cord that cinches the hood back, (not the loop through the peak), and one end came out in my hand! This is a £360 jacket, and someone didn't check to see the cord end had been sewn into the seam. So, of it went for repair, and now it's hanging in the cupboard.

Great customer service, but I'm a little wary of the pricing.

 

[Janne]

I stopped buying Fjallraven when they moved production out of Sweden.
But the G1000 fabric, is made to a spec, be it made in Sweden or VietNam.
It is Wind proof only. Always been, to make it water resistant you need to oil it. I used to have a 60l backpack custom made from that fabric, and had to use a bin liner inside. Well, I always use a binliner, I do not trust any manufacturer enough to potentially ruin my holiday.
Fjallraven used to make stuff for hard outdoor use. Many of todays products seem to be more "outdoor style' fashion.
The Kanken backpack is still nice though, my wife and son love them. Practical.

Expensive? I think so. As you say, they are capitalizing on their name and past.

 

[Nice65]

To be honest, I was very happy to get a brand new one without having to prove I bought it, I think that was excellent customer service, if a hassle.

Would I buy an Anorak 8 new? Definitely not.

As it has heavy duty waxed shoulders and lower arms, I'll wax them using Greenland Wax. The rest is probably going to have some Fabsil sprayed on it at regular intervals.

If it's really tipping it down, I'll wear my Twodogs

 

[Kilbith]

My question is "Given cost against performance is a Fjallraven jacket a worthwhile upgrade over an army smock that's been treated with Nikwax or Diver Dave's waterproofing?

My point of view is based on 30 years of experience with FR. FR jacket/pant could be quite good for hiking when you need also some protection (tipically in forest). And they are a nice "country wear". But it is expensive for such a product.

They fit generally well (classical models), often they are adapted for forest country like scandinavia. They are not good for rain (you must had a lot of wax to have a real effect) but they could hold a light drizzle (if waxed like new or nikwax). They are not totally windproof (nikwaxed) and it is a good thing for hiking (not a lot of sweat). You need for serious hiking (mountain) something more subastial against rain or wind (ex : light goretex paclite or poncho).

Quality is good but not "perfect". When production was in Europe (estonia or litvia I think) It was good. When they go to Asia (around 90), quality dropped but not the price. Now I think that they improve in quality. Lundhags offer the same quality and is not more expensive.

Military clothing are heavier and not always adapted in our society (ex : flecktarn in front of WWII vet is not a good idea. Camo in Africa also). But they have the same performance in my mind.

 

[Ooops]

Thank you for the responses, some interesting food for thought.
I was looking for an alternative to camo otherwise I'd have bought a smock hence the look at Fjallraven.
I was absolutely bowled over by their Smock No 1 but the cost is staggering
It was interesting to read Baggins' successful experiments with wax and Nikiwax but it seems more people are unhappy with Fjallraven than happy.

So as an alternative what are people's thoughts on ventile? How will it stand up to the abuse of muddy stalks and brambles and how weather resistant is it. I know the theory behind it, I'm interested in real world experiences.

 

[caorach]

I was looking for an alternative to camo otherwise I'd have bought a smock hence the look at Fjallraven.

There are windproof smocks available in a wide range of colours including olive drab and blue. Admittedly the plain ones come up much less rarely as surplus but I'm sure a bit of investigation would turn one up. If you want to spend cash then Arktis do a waterproof version, or just a plain windproof version, and you can have them in more colours than you can shake a stick at.

The whole "marketing" thing now completely drives the market and the "outdoor" market is, in my view, nothing more than a fashion parade with people buying generally overpriced and unsuitable clothing on the basis of "features" and magazine adverts. I was in contact with a large manufacturer of outdoor coats, they were looking to introduce a new line in clothing and wanted some input from end users. I was suggesting that the British army system of windproof (and showerproof) smock with a goretex layer that you wear underneath the smock if it gets really wet is the perfect solution as the smock is so breathable and so copes with the conditions on maybe 90% of days so the user ends up more comfortable 90% of the time and only has to don a waterproof layer when necessary etc. To my surprise they agreed with me completely and said that there is no question it was the best solution but because people believe in all the goretex and 100% waterproof advertising so it is impossible to sell such a solution, they'd tried and it wasn't a success as no one would buy their gear.

 

[Kilbith]

It was interesting to read Baggins' successful experiments with wax and Nikiwax but it seems more people are unhappy with Fjallraven than happy.

I am happy with FR (I had perharps bought 10 items since 30 years) but It is not a religion for me.

They have somme advantages and some limitations. Since a thin "goretexlike anorak" weight less than 250g and could be very inexpensive nowadays (like raincut of Decathlon)...FR jacket could not be considered in 2017 like "good rain garnment" (like it was in 70's). If it is really raining, I have a light rain coat in my FR pocket that I could put upon FRjacket (Raincut outside or, better, an Arktis rainshield inside for hunting in forest). A single FRjacket is far more confortable to hike than the best Goretex Jacket when you dont need 100%waterproof.

So as an alternative what are people's thoughts on ventile? How will it stand up to the abuse of muddy stalks and brambles and how weather resistant is it. I know the theory behind it, I'm interested in real world experiences.

Ventile (and Etaproof) jackets are far more "rain proof" than FR jackets. But they are often heavier, less tear resistant (if same weight), take more time to be dry when wet and are more expensive. But single layer ventile is very nice in deep cold winter because it is quite totally wind and snow resistant and could manage some episodic rain. Double layer is really heavy.

I must admit that my SASS ventile like jacket is quite nice in the woods and, If I don't walk a lot, I prefer it to my FR greenland jacket.

I know that some people will explain that Ventile is "the best" in all category. And I must admit that it is an amazing stuff. But It is not a miracle. If it is raining/sleet all days between +10°C and 0°C you will be wet and cold (....except If you have under Ventile something very hydrophobic and warm (wool sweater, pile...). If temperature drop quickly at night under 0°C, you will have some ice in your ventile jacket. If you have a fire at night : it will be ok. This is my experience in Finland winter hiking/bivouac with Ventile.

Great advantage of Ventile : no more complication with DWR, smoke or delaminating PU enduction. And you could wash your jacket without questions. Of course, cotton is nice in contact with your skin.

(sorry my english is basic)