Just stumbled across this, thought it might be of interest:
10 Useless or Even Dangerous First Aid Myths
10 Useless or Even Dangerous First Aid Myths
First Aid Myths
- Thread starter gregorach
- Start date
Not sure about the urine / jellyfish one being in there - Its neither useless nor dangerous.
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works, and if it doesn't, then the worst thing that will have happened is that you will have some **** on your leg. Which you can wash off in the sea.....
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works, and if it doesn't, then the worst thing that will have happened is that you will have some **** on your leg. Which you can wash off in the sea.....
dommyracer said:
That sort of argument is what makes it potentially dangerous. If people believe that peeing on your leg will solve the problem, they might not seek medical attention in a timely fashion. If the casualty has a bad reaction to the sting, they could be in dire straits in no time at all. And the worst part would be that the whole situation would have been preventable if the casualty had sought proper treatment rather than going with some (potential) quack cure.
I'm not saying that jellyfish are particularly dangerous, but the exercise can be applied to most anything.
Sorry but i've peed on a jellyfish sting and it works fine, and rapidly. It also works for sea urchin spines as it softens them and enables the hydraulic pressure of the flesh to eject them preventing inflammation and septic infection.
I always find that generalised answers to not do something in case a slight chance that it might not work are unsatisfactory and cause more discomfort than help. An example is the famous one that you should not warm babys milk in a microwave, People get the idea that it does something bad to the milk - it doesnt - the only danger is from really old microwave ovens that dont use emission stirrers so its possible that there is a localised hot spot in the milk which can cause scalding in rare cases - the real advise is simply to give the bottle a really good shake and then test the temperature (which you do anyway).
Heres another, never freeze a piece of meat once its been defrosted, why?, the butcher you bought it from defrosted it when he put it on the slab, the meat wholesaler had it defrosted before he jointed it for the butcher. Im not saying that its the way to get the best from the meat but does that mean its going to kill you?
I always find that generalised answers to not do something in case a slight chance that it might not work are unsatisfactory and cause more discomfort than help. An example is the famous one that you should not warm babys milk in a microwave, People get the idea that it does something bad to the milk - it doesnt - the only danger is from really old microwave ovens that dont use emission stirrers so its possible that there is a localised hot spot in the milk which can cause scalding in rare cases - the real advise is simply to give the bottle a really good shake and then test the temperature (which you do anyway).
Heres another, never freeze a piece of meat once its been defrosted, why?, the butcher you bought it from defrosted it when he put it on the slab, the meat wholesaler had it defrosted before he jointed it for the butcher. Im not saying that its the way to get the best from the meat but does that mean its going to kill you?
But the article, this thread and I are talking about "First Aid".
First Aid is literally that - the First Aid that is given. Proper medical advice should ALWAYS be sought after First Aid is given.
Perhaps this is a message that is missed sometimes - First Aid should never be considered a full treatment / cure, unless for minor cuts / scrapes / knocks.
Exactly...first aid is just that.
I'm sure there are a few of you out there who had a good giggle recently about dopy old me who whacked the back of his hand with an axe..
I nicked an artery and had a large (and disturbing) jet of blood out of the back of my hand. As i was chopping wood and was filthy my "first aid" response was:
Wash it under the tap to clean it (and scream loud and long
)
Dive into my FAK and wrap a large bandage round it (thinking, the wife <a nurse> is gonna rip the living daylights out of me for weeks for this!
)
Take a spare bandage just in case.
Get in my car and drive to casualty where it was assessed, washed again (with more silent screaming ) and steri stripped shut.
I'm sure there are a few of you out there who had a good giggle recently about dopy old me who whacked the back of his hand with an axe..
I nicked an artery and had a large (and disturbing) jet of blood out of the back of my hand. As i was chopping wood and was filthy my "first aid" response was:
Wash it under the tap to clean it (and scream loud and long
)Dive into my FAK and wrap a large bandage round it (thinking, the wife <a nurse> is gonna rip the living daylights out of me for weeks for this!
)Take a spare bandage just in case.
Get in my car and drive to casualty where it was assessed, washed again (with more silent screaming
) and steri stripped shut.dommyracer said:
I think that you've nailed it.
Edit: And while this particular discussion is about first aid, that doesn't mean the reasoning used is good. It's what drives so many of the snake-oil remedies out there. I guess I have a philosophical problem with "There's no evidence it doesn't work, so it can't be harmful to the situation."
Again, I'm not really talking about jellyfish and urine; I'm concerned about people taking "folk remedies" as their primary treatment mode.
Granted, but a lot of 'folk' remedies do work and have been successfully used for thousands of years by local / indigenous populations.
Its just separating those from the 'snake oil' stuff thats the trouble.
Having said that, a lot of pharmaceuticals sold over the counter these days have an air of snake oil about them. Look at all the 'cold and flu' remedies out there - its just more fancy ways to sell paracetamol.....
I once had a book First Aid at Your Fingertips which gave acupressure points which could be used for first aid. I only had need to use one technique, which was to apply pressure to the hand to relieve toothache. On the two occasions I used it it worked, but you did need to get the place to apply the pressure exactly right. It wasnt a replacement to what I was trained to do on a first aid course, it supplemented it. Its a technique that will not cause harm and may help relieve pain before conventional treatment is available. I lent the book and never got it back, which I deeply regret.
What's weird is the guy in the comments section who recommends not to use vinegar (an acid) on jellyfish stings, but baking soda (alkaline), even though he links to a site that recommends vinegar.
Interestingly, the Wikipedia article also recommends vinegar, but says that urine is actively bad (as it encourages more release of venom). Of course, Wikipedia has been known to be wrong once or twice, so I don't know whether to believe it.
It just goes to prove once again (as people have already said) that first aid really is just to do what you can to prevent things from getting worse, then let a qualified doctor who knows what he's doing to actually do the fixing.
Interestingly, the Wikipedia article also recommends vinegar, but says that urine is actively bad (as it encourages more release of venom). Of course, Wikipedia has been known to be wrong once or twice, so I don't know whether to believe it.
It just goes to prove once again (as people have already said) that first aid really is just to do what you can to prevent things from getting worse, then let a qualified doctor who knows what he's doing to actually do the fixing.
dommyracer said:
Yeah, that's why "folk remedies" was in quotes. I have absolutely no problem with so called alternative treatments and use them myself. But if something only has anecdotes to back it up, I'm skeptical. That's all I was getting at.
BOD
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
There is some evidence that vinegar may activate the undischarged nematocysts on some Physalia "jellyfish" so hot water is the preferable first aid treatment of choice.
See
http://www.toxinology.com/generic_static_files/cslavh_marine.html#bluebottle
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/184_07_030406/lot11135_fm.html
We use hot water as the treatment though vinegar is on the boat in case someone prefers it. We will try and **** on you if you ask but can't promise instant delivery
I took a bad non Physalia jelly fish hit in May off the East coast of Malaysia. Can't say the vinegar really helped but it didn't make it worse. It was cooling though.
No one offered to **** on me
See
http://www.toxinology.com/generic_static_files/cslavh_marine.html#bluebottle
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/184_07_030406/lot11135_fm.html
We use hot water as the treatment though vinegar is on the boat in case someone prefers it. We will try and **** on you if you ask but can't promise instant delivery
I took a bad non Physalia jelly fish hit in May off the East coast of Malaysia. Can't say the vinegar really helped but it didn't make it worse. It was cooling though.
No one offered to **** on me
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