Falkniven f1 with scandi grind

[TheGreenMan]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/content/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=136

This is a review of an f1 that has been scandi'd

That’s funny you should post that URL, if memory serves me correctly, that review was one of the contributing factors that caused me to buy an F1. No doubt, I failed to absorb the mention of the modified grind to a Nordic type (I found the word ‘Nordic’ used the other day on a site, in place of the more usual ‘Scandinavian’, and have become rather fond of it). I’m usually quite attentive, and can only put this oversight down to my being rather ‘green’ <chuckle>.

I will concede, without embarrassment, that your original proposal had merit. Touché!

Even the slight thinning of the F1’s blade I did the other day, caused the hair to fly like it never has before. Although I haven’t yet tried it to shave wood. It has a however, as I have already mentioned, made me curious to try a thinner blade with a Moran grind.

Thank you.

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[Shinken]

Nordic and moran! both cool alternatives to scandinavian and convex.

And a lil less scientific that zero ground primary bevel, definatly prefere nordic

 

[leon-1]

That’s funny you should post that URL, if memory serves me correctly, that review was one of the contributing factors that caused me to buy an F1.

That article was originally written by Neil1

 

[TheGreenMan]

Nordic and moran! both cool alternatives to scandinavian and convex.

And a lil less scientific that zero ground primary bevel, definatly prefere nordic

Ahmen to that!

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[TheGreenMan]

That article was originally written by Neil1

Hello leon-1,

I know <big grin>

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[British Red]

Like the Bison stuff, however the moran (love it) grind I get is being made up to my design by the inestimable Bogdan in weird steel (actually the same steel that Sals going to use....).

As for any future knives? Well, I'm going to end up owing Singteck and awful lot fairly soon as he is doing his usual magic on two axe masks and a few other bits of custom leatherwork for me so must resist!

Red

 

[TheGreenMan]

Like the Bison stuff, however the moran (love it) grind I get is being made up to my design by the inestimable Bogdan in weird steel (actually the same steel that Sals going to use....).

As for any future knives? Well, I'm going to end up owing Singteck and awful lot fairly soon as he is doing his usual magic on two axe masks and a few other bits of custom leatherwork for me so must resist!

Red

Red,

Having frantically Googled for 'Bogden' and 'Singteck' and come up with 'zilch', could your shed further light on both? Not to mention the steel that Sal is going to use!

As you clearly have the finger on the pulse, to a far greater extent than myself, could you spill the beans? <chuckle>.

Eagerly anticipating your reply

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[British Red]

Sorry Green Man,

Singteck is a fantastic leatherworker who is a member here. He's done some fantastic work for me and others. Check his stuff out here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/singteck

Work in progress on my Scandinavian Forest Axe...

Bogdan is (I think) also a member here - he's also "Kolekojot" on OMF, Bogdan on LSG etc. Here is one of his knives

As for the steel - errrrrrr 52100 (I think) check out Sals thread. They tell me its good stuff - I'll leave it to the experts!

Red

 

[OldJimbo]

I think, Paul, that life is short for all of us, and that if a knife really appeals, then that's something special and worthwhile getting. We can always be sure that makers try their hardest to develop and make something which works well - as well as look good. You can be certain that Mike and lots of others have done their very best with the Aurora. They've probably put in more effort than you could believe.
In the end though it comes down to the question of whether a knife will do what you want - and that's a tough question. Sometimes the answer seems fairly simple as with the F1 which we're discusssing here. It's easy enough to put some sort of more acute edge on it - even if easy means sending it to someone to have the job done. The trouble is that it may then work great - but not suit your way of working.
I've modified many knives until I was really happy with the way they worked. After lots of trips out and being happy, I've then tried them against something else which simply worked better with my methods.
It's sure one long trip heading toward finding the perfect all-around knife - because we're all different.

 

[TheGreenMan]

Sorry Green Man...

Thanks, Red. Nice info.

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[TheGreenMan]

I think, Paul, that life is short for all of us, and that if a knife really appeals, then that's something special and worthwhile getting. We can always be sure that makers try their hardest to develop and make something which works well - as well as look good. You can be certain that Mike and lots of others have done their very best with the Aurora. They've probably put in more effort than you could believe.
In the end though it comes down to the question of whether a knife will do what you want - and that's a tough question. Sometimes the answer seems fairly simple as with the F1 which we're discusssing here. It's easy enough to put some sort of more acute edge on it - even if easy means sending it to someone to have the job done. The trouble is that it may then work great - but not suit your way of working.
I've modified many knives until I was really happy with the way they worked. After lots of trips out and being happy, I've then tried them against something else which simply worked better with my methods.
It's sure one long trip heading toward finding the perfect all-around knife - because we're all different.

All very true, Jimbo.

Best regards,
Paul.

 

[riddleofsteel]

I am wading in a little late on this. Most of the experts have already made the best points.
I grew up with flat ground knives. The most exotic thing I ever used was an old Buck Sheath knife with a hollow ground blade. I also learned to sharpen flat ground knives with a stone and oil early; it was second nature. My 13 year old son still marvels how fast I can take a dull flat ground blade to razor sharpness with a couple of stones. In the field I carry a diamond impregnated Schrade steel that will put a butcher's edge back on a skinning knife in a couple of strokes.
Woodcraft and wood carving is new to me. I have done a lot over the last 40+ years with my old USAF survival knife but I thought I was just messing around camp making stuff. Imagine my surprise when I found out I was woodcrafting and needed a Scandi ground woodcrafting knife to survive. Since then I have purchased a few "woodcraft" knives, mostly threw curiosity, including a Stewart Marsh, Falknivens, and Bark Rivers. I must say I see no real difference in the top quality woodcrafters in performance, edge holding, or ease of sharpening. I will say I have retired my USAF survival knife in favor of these new knives but my son still uses it. As long as I remember what grind I am touching up and use the proper tool I do fine.
I usually just touch up my Bark Rivers honing on my pants leg or on a piece of cardboard with some chrome dioxide paste. My Falknivens are a little harder and require a ceramic or diamond hone if allowed to get dull. If I catch them in time a leather strap does just fine.
Can I say the convex blade out cuts the flat ground blades hands down?

HUMMMM...

I guess not.

Are the convex blades crap and need to be reprofiled to flat grinds?

No I guess not.

But what do I know I did not even know I was woodcrafting for 40 years until I read about it on the internet.

 

[Shinken]

Sounds cool! just remember though here in Uk we call mens underwear ''pants''

So stroping your knife on those could be dangerous

But i guess by the sounds of it you alreday have a Kid/s

 

[OldJimbo]

Even I'd forgotten that. Here we have "Captain Underpants" comics, books and shows, so we don't get confused.
Captain Underpants

 

[Xunil]

Dear Friends,

I’d like to take this subject back to the basics, if I may. The F1 is a light weight, yet robust, SURVIVAL knife for Swedish airbourne military. This is the purpose for which it was designed and developed. And if one had to eject from the Saab, I dare say that the F1 would be jolly useful to disentangle oneself from the parachute cords, build a shelter, prepare firewood, light a fire with the firesteel, gut a fish or two and make traps for cute, fluffy creatures etc.

It is NOT a ‘bushcraft’ knife.

The purpose of the Kraton handle is to provide excellent grip in sweating palms, or when fully submerged in water. Also the handle being free of any metal parts, prevents cold burns to bare hands, when in the Arctic winter environment.

This is a wild guess on my part, but I’d say that the reason that Fällkiven offer a full tang blade to the market, is that if you happen not like the Kraton one, you can fit one of your own, in any material or shape that you darn well pleasey!

The purpose of the convex nature of the grind is to help prevent rolling/chipping of the edge if subjected to some abuse. A convex grind on a blade of this thickness helps keep the blade thicker (Stronger) nearer the cutting edge than a full height flat grind on a blade of the same thickness and height would be, or indeed, a flat grind from the lamination line to the cutting edge. And a convex makes for a good slicer, and on bigger, heavier knives, a convex makes for a good chopper.

All of the above is why the F1 is such a ‘rubbish’ knife <ironic smile>

If you are worried about wood carving, leave the F1 at home and take a Scandinavian woodcarving knife with a 2-3” blade, into the woods.

If you are worried about vegetable preparation, leave the F1 at home and take a paring knife from the kitchen drawer.

All blades are a compromise of one sort or another when you are trying to use a single blade for a multitude of purposes. And there’s no way round this.

All that remains is to thank Old Jimbo for the sanity, and imparting long worked for wisdom (As usual).

Best regards,
Paul.

PS: ‘I’ll get me coat’

Are we related at all ?



F1 = fantastic knife just as it is and if you take into account its intended use and audience it would be hard to improve upon.

Years ago people used hollow ground blades because that's what the factories were (mostly) making. We all still managed to light fires, butcher animals, build shelters and so on.

I'd be interested to see a Scandi converted F1 out of curiosity.

But user preference is only relevant to that user, which is why I like convex while others prefer Scandi and vice versa.

Horses for courses.

I'd still like to see one, though it seems cost prohibitive to buy such a good (and not inexpensive) knife only to rework it.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to make one from scratch ?

 

[Shinken]

There are a few on here that have been done!

It would be lots easier yes, but i think it would be fun!

 

[TheGreenMan]

Are we related at all ? ......

That is a real complement, Xunil. Thank you

...I'd be interested to see a Scandi converted F1 out of curiosity...

Here you go:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/content/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=136

And here:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=141

...But user preference is only relevant to that user......

Here,here!

Horses for courses...

Couldn’t agree more…this is what makes blades such fun – almost endless opportunities to learn through play.

...though it seems cost prohibitive to buy such a good (and not inexpensive) knife only to rework it...

I had a go the other night at thinning out the edge a little more of one of my F1s with a hand file…boy is that VG-10 tough stuff!

Best regards,
Paul

 

[leon-1]

I had a go the other night at thinning out the edge a little more of one of my F1s with a hand file…boy is that VG-10 tough stuff!

Best regards,
Paul

Paul, if you have acces to a Lansky sharpening system, that would probably be your best bet for doing a regrind.

 

[TheGreenMan]

Thanks Leon, that’s a really useful suggestion.

Unfortunately I don’t have any kind of sharpening system at all, and none of my friends are outdoor types so I can’t borrow one either. I decided a long time ago that I would learn to sharpen my blades with nothing but a DC3/DC4 so that I could acquire the skills without any aids to maintain factory applied grinds. Through long experimentation, I now have those skills (although I’m always looking to improve), and it feels good.

I’m not really interested in putting a flat grind on the F1 (If I want a Nordic grind on a knife I can just buy a knife with a Nordic grind), I just wanted to make the geometry where the arcs intersect a little more acute (the arcs on the S1 are more acute and it’s a ‘wicked’ edge!).

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I had tried removing some metal using the mouse mat/abrasive paper method and even the tiny amount of metal that was removed seemed to make it easier to use for producing feather sticks. I was curious ito know f removing even more metal would improve performance yet again.

I think that problems with convex grinds are largely a problem of user technique, rather than the grind itself. I don’t have any trouble maintaining the edge of a convex anymore, and I use nothing but the ceramic side of a DC3 or DC4 (well, I did use DC3 but it's in Iraq now), I don’t even use the mouse mat method now that I’ve discovered the correct technique with the diamond/ceramic whetstones. It just makes life a whole lot simpler – tiny stone, no oil, no water, just knowing how to use the diamond/ceramic correctly. Bliss.

The next thing to acquire is a leather strop, to take the skills to the next level. I’m very curious to see if stropping will yield a significant improvement to the performance of the edges of my blades.

Exciting stuff!

Thanks again, Leon.

Best regards,
Paul.

PS: When I get some Japanese waterstones I’ll have a whole new field of experimentation ahead of me <squeal of delight> Can’t wait!

 

[Shinken]

Ive tried most forms of sharpening stones, but J waterstones are my favorite! you will enjoy using them mate!