Been looking at a deer rifle in 25-06 caliber. Very nice gun, a Mauser sporter (not a sporterised military). Anyone familiar with this caliber and its attributes? I've heard they are very flat shooting.
Caliber
- Thread starter pierre girard
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A friend had one in a Tikka...As you say its fairly flat shooting and as such it seems to be geting more and more popular for Reds on the hill in Scotland..
Might be a bit much for the smaller species of deer in that the velocity gives you a lot of carcass damage if you're not careful.
Usually loaded with a 117grn or 115grain bullet and is essentially a 30-06 case necked down to .25 calibre...
Might be a bit much for the smaller species of deer in that the velocity gives you a lot of carcass damage if you're not careful.
Usually loaded with a 117grn or 115grain bullet and is essentially a 30-06 case necked down to .25 calibre...
pierre girard said:
They are flat and not too heavy on recoil and cheap to reload.
I used to shoot one but swapped to a .308.
Problem with the .25-06 is that you can only really go up to 125 grain bullets, the .308 will run up to 200 grain bullets. My .243" will do 100 grain bullets. So my thoughts were 'why?', might as well stick with a .243" & .308".
John
B
bluemountaingunworks
Guest
Pierre,
Here in the West alot of people are using the .25-06 as a mule deer and pronghorn rifle with good results. The benifits of this caliber are a flat shooting round capable of high muzzle velocities. There are a couple downsides as well. The terminal energy will be decreased due to the smaller bullet weight as previously mentioned. Secondly, unless you plan to reload, ammo may be difficult to find if you live in a rural area. I personally feel that this caliber will work great for most of the game found in MN, including Black Bear. You may have to work up a couple different loads with varying weight bullets to get the desired results, but that's half the fun. The BarnesX solid copper bullet is a great choice for energy transfer and penetration in the smaller calibers. This bullet is made from solid copper and cut/scored so that it will mushroom to provide a decent wound channel. These attributes are what you want in a good big game bullet- deep penetration and lots of damage to the surrounding tissus and organs. That provides for a quick, humane kill and also cuts down on wounded animals running off and leaving you to track. As with most everything else, there are lots of choices in firearms and calibers that do the same job. The most important thing is that you are satisfied with the results and it performs to your expectations. Just my 2 cents! Good luck and God Bless! Jerry
Here in the West alot of people are using the .25-06 as a mule deer and pronghorn rifle with good results. The benifits of this caliber are a flat shooting round capable of high muzzle velocities. There are a couple downsides as well. The terminal energy will be decreased due to the smaller bullet weight as previously mentioned. Secondly, unless you plan to reload, ammo may be difficult to find if you live in a rural area. I personally feel that this caliber will work great for most of the game found in MN, including Black Bear. You may have to work up a couple different loads with varying weight bullets to get the desired results, but that's half the fun. The BarnesX solid copper bullet is a great choice for energy transfer and penetration in the smaller calibers. This bullet is made from solid copper and cut/scored so that it will mushroom to provide a decent wound channel. These attributes are what you want in a good big game bullet- deep penetration and lots of damage to the surrounding tissus and organs. That provides for a quick, humane kill and also cuts down on wounded animals running off and leaving you to track. As with most everything else, there are lots of choices in firearms and calibers that do the same job. The most important thing is that you are satisfied with the results and it performs to your expectations. Just my 2 cents! Good luck and God Bless! Jerry
bluemountaingunworks said:
I've heard it is a good caliber. A friend in Alaska swears by this caliber, using it for long range caribou - and just about everything else he hunts.
There is a Gander Mountain store in Duluth, and I see they have .25-06 shells ranging from $40 a box (for Kore-loct Federals) to $22 a box for Remington cartridges. Though used to do a lot of re-loading, I now do none at all, as I have no time, and have sold off my rock-chucker. For years, I've used only three rifle calibers, .30-30, .30-06, and 8 MM Mauser, and I'd like something a little more flat shooting - without going into magnum calibers. I had a 7MM Magnum at one time. It always hammered you whenever you took a shot, and the shells were so expensive I never spent the time shooting it to where I felt like I knew the rifle.
I'm still trying to figure out just what the story is on this Mauser. It isn't the 798 imported by Remington, and formerly by Charles Daley - nor is it the model 03 as the rear of the bolt and safety placement is different. I'm thinking I'm going to go into town today and take another look at it.
Hi Pierre, have you thought about going towards something like 6.5mm (.264) swedish. They have a reasonably flat trajectory, moderate recoil and pretty high sectional density.
I know that a single shot at 400 yards will take down a caribou, maybe this is the way to go. I believe that you can get them in 120, 140 and 160 grain so there are a choice of flavours
I know that a single shot at 400 yards will take down a caribou, maybe this is the way to go. I believe that you can get them in 120, 140 and 160 grain so there are a choice of flavours
Well, a big part of my interest is the rather unusual rifle. I've done a little research on it and found it was made by a German or Austrian company named Voere (pronounced Verry - eventually purchased by Mauser) and imported to the US by a Texas firm named KDF - the rifle itself known as the Titan. These are the kinds of quotes I find on the internet:
http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/akforum/akshooting/51673.htm
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-153676.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=139445&goto=nextoldest
I am especially intrigued by one quote which lists it as "The most accurate rifle!" I am put off, however, by concerns over availability of parts as the rifle is no longer manufactured.
http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/akforum/akshooting/51673.htm
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-153676.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=139445&goto=nextoldest
I am especially intrigued by one quote which lists it as "The most accurate rifle!" I am put off, however, by concerns over availability of parts as the rifle is no longer manufactured.
I looked at a Voere in .22 rimfire recently. The seller said they were Austrian but I'm pretty sure it was stamped 'Germany'. Seemed well enough made. As you would expect for German engineering of course.
Doc said:
One of the sources I looked at says there are two Voere companys - one in Austria, one in Germany. If I remember correctly, it was also stated that neither makes firearms anymore. A shame, if the rifle I'm looking at is any example.
Looking on Guntrader there are 7 used Voere rifles. A 22-250 at £495 and a .270 (pictured) at £245. Of course it is difficult to compare prices as most things are much more expensive in the UK. Firearm prices can get very distorted because it is quite a hassle to get the licence. The .22 Voere was only £50.
http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/GunImages.php?NewGunID=070201162007006
http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/GunImages.php?NewGunID=070201162007006
Doc said:
The rifle I am looking at appears to be quite different than the one pictured on the gun trader site (which appears - to my untrained eye - to be based on something similar to a Mauser 98 action). The bolt is much different, it has a detachable box magazine, and it has much better wood. It is listed for $819.
B
bluemountaingunworks
Guest
Pierre,
Do you have a link to the place where the rifle you're considering is located? I'd like to see it and take a look to see if I can help determine if it is a '98 or not for you. I have never heard of the Voere brand and have not seen parts listed either. That in itself would make me a little aprehensive. If it is '98 though, no sweat. There are all sorts of aftermarket "hot-rod" parts for those actions. I am in the process of building 2 '98's off of the Turk M38 action. I plan to barrel one in .308 and the other in .270. If you really like the Mauser action, it is not all that difficult to build a custom rifle yourself with nominal cost and very little in the way of special tools. That might be an option for you as well. Please let me know if I can help out in any way. God Bless! Jerry
Do you have a link to the place where the rifle you're considering is located? I'd like to see it and take a look to see if I can help determine if it is a '98 or not for you. I have never heard of the Voere brand and have not seen parts listed either. That in itself would make me a little aprehensive. If it is '98 though, no sweat. There are all sorts of aftermarket "hot-rod" parts for those actions. I am in the process of building 2 '98's off of the Turk M38 action. I plan to barrel one in .308 and the other in .270. If you really like the Mauser action, it is not all that difficult to build a custom rifle yourself with nominal cost and very little in the way of special tools. That might be an option for you as well. Please let me know if I can help out in any way. God Bless! Jerry
quick search of the interwebpierre girard said:
http://www.voere.com/fruhe_fertigung.htm
Vöhrenbach model 2013/2014 or the titan II
Not calibre specific but I really rate the quarter bore and believe such is much neglected by both bullet makers and the new-generation accuracy buffs. Now, just exactly how much diffrenec is there between .25 and 6.5 bullets of equal weight!!
Cheers
Cheers
Klenchblaize said:Not calibre specific but I really rate the quarter bore and believe such is much neglected by both bullet makers and the new-generation accuracy buffs. Now, just exactly how much diffrenec is there between .25 and 6.5 bullets of equal weight!!
Cheers
? Really don't know. I know a few things about rifles, having hunted for many years, but almost every rifle I've ever owned, except for .22s, was 30 caliber - or larger.
Jerry: No website for the Voere. Haven't been able to find anything online that looks like this rifle. I have a couple of Kar 98s, and this is a completely different bolt - extremely smooth compared to a 98. One article on the Voere rifles says it has the world's fastest lock time - and I wouldn't doubt it after trying it.
I used to sporterize military rifles - in the 1960s when you could buy an 03 Springfield for $12 or a .303 Enfield for $8. After butchering a few I made two very nice Springfield sporters and one beautiful Enfield using walnut from the only walnut tree growing in our area. It was a real "bushcraft" job - starting with an axe and knife and ending up, after a couple years seasoning, with some beautiful burl stocks. I've also built about ten flintlock rifles and fusils from scratch, but I just don't have time now. Another job for retirement.
Doesn't matter though, I guess. I chickened out on the Voere - mostly out of concern over lack of parts if it should ever break. I went over to Wisconsin this morning to check out the only extant gun shop (guns only) left in the area. The guys there really know what they are talking about concerning guns (unlike the high school and college age kids employed at most sporting goods stores).
A good friend of mine, a former army captain and shooting instructor - very knowledgeable about ballistics - was at the gun shop. He convinced me that the 7mm-08 is the caliber to go with - so-o-o - I bought a 7 mm-08 Remington Model 700 Mountain rifle with a detachable magazine and a Leupold 3X9 scope. It came to about $1000. My buddy has three Remington model 700s and gets a 3/8 inch and even 5/16 inch group at 100 yards with handloads.
My buddy tried to talk me into a smaller scope - as he has hunted with me (last time we hunted together - I shot a deer one foot from the muzzle, He always tells me that I need a bayonet so I could just impale deer - instead of shooting them), but I have plenty of rifles I shoot out to 100 yards, and wanted a scope that would gather light better and allow me to reach out further.
Who knows, I might want to hunt prairie country some day where the deer don't stay close enough to pet.
B
bluemountaingunworks
Guest
Pierre,
Sounds like you got a great set-up in the Rem 700/7mm-08! That should be enough to handle just about anything. Like you, I prefer a .30-especially military. I hunt with an M1 Garand and an M1A. I have also used a No.4 SMLE in .303 as well. I really enjoy those old antiques. They just have so much history seeped into them and are great weapons to boot. Glad you got it all sorted out and good luck! God Bless! Jerry
Sounds like you got a great set-up in the Rem 700/7mm-08! That should be enough to handle just about anything. Like you, I prefer a .30-especially military. I hunt with an M1 Garand and an M1A. I have also used a No.4 SMLE in .303 as well. I really enjoy those old antiques. They just have so much history seeped into them and are great weapons to boot. Glad you got it all sorted out and good luck! God Bless! Jerry
