You can do all that (except online sharing) with paper and pencil and good books (or some previous reading)...
nah - for my money that is gadgetry!
Luddites for ever!
Bushcrafters and technology
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nah - for my money that is gadgetry!
Luddites for ever!
John, your comments about tools and gadgets remind me of a part of Matthew Crawford's book, 'Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry in to the Value of Work'. He distinguishes Things from Devices. He says that Things (tools) call forth skilled and active human engagement, whereas devices (gadgets) just invite consumption. Reading a map with a compass requires more skill than following GPS waypoints. It doesn't mean that gadgets don't have their place, just that using tools generally requires a deeper understanding of the task at hand. I think trying to gain that deeper understanding is a fundamental reason behind many of us practising bushcraft. At the same time, many of us will carry a lighter along with our flints and steels because we understand the advantages of having a backup available. Gadgets like smartphones represent a way to backup a variety of systems (maps, torch, communication) in one device.
I must read that book - it sounds good
I would say that I like my "tools/toys" definitions though ... "toys" give pleasure to the user as well as being a source of "consumption" so are fine on that level.
As to being a good back up to more primitive tools the toys just prove too vunerable (in my eyes) to rely on - a glaring exception was when I was using GPS in Ghana... there were no usable maps to use so when my oppo and I did the recon for the trip we used GPS to build a map to share with the other teams that would be coming our way ... ergo - it was a tool at the time, not a toy and boy did we look after our tools!
Too many people think that these toys are real tools for daily use and some have got themselves into serious trouble by not having the real skills they need (I am thinking of MRT statistics here - of people relying on GPS/mobiles/Apps etc when what they realy needed was nav skills).
I was brought up and trained up on paper and pen learning and will freely admit my IT skills are primitive (though I was a programmer back in the days if IBM360/370s) and my back ups are primitive skills learned over the years and pretty well ingrained into my psyche - if I lose my compass then I turn to the stars/moon/sun not a satalite
If I bust my torch ... I make fire or go to sleep
Luddites forever!
And for those who would point out that I am using a PC to make these points - even I play with toys for fun ... but my computer is not something I take into the wilds with me
Some technologies are developped tools - some are developed toys.
I was very disapointed recently - my old Nokia - which was tough and reliable, made and took calls (my thumbs are too big for texts so I don't use that feature) small and with a fantastic battery life (especially if you only use it for emergency calls
) died after giving faithful service for about 10 years. The simplest (free) replacement I could get with my contract ( I aint paying for one if I can avoid it) includes a useless camera (I own a camera already) and all sorts of silly optional features like downloadable ring tones. I have not bought a card for the camera and I will use it only to make and take calls ... that is all I want it for - a simple working tool, not a toy
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I'm probably a Luddite, but my take is that I will use whatever technology I want when I want or need to use it.
I don't want to surf the 'net when I'm walking through town (the roads are dangerous, and I have a comfy chair and cups of tea at home). I don't like using a digital camera, so I use a film camera when I want to take pics.
I refuse to waste money and resources trying to keep up with the treadmill of new technology when the old stuff I have is fine. When the old stuff breaks, then I'll replace it with whatever is current.
Cheers
(PS - I use a fountain pen at work, my watch is mechanical, I don't have a TV and I think I remember where my mobile phone is. I might even know where the charger is....)
I don't want to surf the 'net when I'm walking through town (the roads are dangerous, and I have a comfy chair and cups of tea at home). I don't like using a digital camera, so I use a film camera when I want to take pics.
I refuse to waste money and resources trying to keep up with the treadmill of new technology when the old stuff I have is fine. When the old stuff breaks, then I'll replace it with whatever is current.
Cheers
(PS - I use a fountain pen at work, my watch is mechanical, I don't have a TV and I think I remember where my mobile phone is. I might even know where the charger is....)
John - let me have a root around at home, I'm sure I've got an old Nokia hanging around somewhere and so long as it still holds a charge, you're welcome to it.
I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
Cheers,
Steve
I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
Cheers,
Steve
I must read that book - it sounds good
I would say that I like my "tools/toys" definitions though ... "toys" give pleasure to the user as well as being a source of "consumption" so are fine on that level.
As to being a good back up to more primitive tools the toys just prove too vunerable (in my eyes) to rely on - a glaring exception was when I was using GPS in Ghana... there were no usable maps to use so when my oppo and I did the recon for the trip we used GPS to build a map to share with the other teams that would be coming our way ... ergo - it was a tool at the time, not a toy and boy did we look after our tools!
Too many people think that these toys are real tools for daily use and some have got themselves into serious trouble by not having the real skills they need (I am thinking of MRT statistics here - of people relying on GPS/mobiles/Apps etc when what they realy needed was nav skills).
I was brought up and trained up on paper and pen learning and will freely admit my IT skills are primitive (though I was a programmer back in the days if IBM360/370s) and my back ups are primitive skills learned over the years and pretty well ingrained into my psyche - if I lose my compass then I turn to the stars/moon/sun not a satalite
If I bust my torch ... I make fire or go to sleep
Luddites forever!
And for those who would point out that I am using a PC to make these points - even I play with toys for fun ... but my computer is not something I take into the wilds with me
Some technologies are developped tools - some are developed toys.
I was very disapointed recently - my old Nokia - which was tough and reliable, made and took calls (my thumbs are too big for texts so I don't use that feature) small and with a fantastic battery life (especially if you only use it for emergency calls
We have a summer house on Lesvos (a Greek island) and there is a old woman in the village that has only electricity in her house the last 20 years.
Even then it was fitted by her daughter and son and she hardly ever uses it.
Her accent is extremely strong plus she has no teeth and my Greek is not exactly good, so it's difficult to understand everything.
But she distrusts these new modern lights, ironically she feels they are dangerous compared to the oil burning lamps she's been using her entire life.
Likewise the electric cooker, kettle etc.
She also says that she enjoys the procedure of starting a fire, tendering it and cooking on it, she says the light from the oil lamp is more relaxing than the electric bulb.
She has only left village once and never left the island as she hates, cars buses, boats, planes etc.
My point it we take for granted many things that some would wrap up into "technology".
Many of us take our cars or vans to get to a decent site.
We make arrangements with friends vis the phone or the internet.
We order stuff electronically, that is then flown, shipped or driven to us.
Even if we use man made materials all but a very few will be made on electronic looms, cutters sewing machines.
Take away everything that has not been made from start to finish by hand, using something made from start to finish by hand (i.e knife, axe etc) and we are left with very very tools, gadgets, possessions.
I don't think there is one person on this forum that would argue that you NEED map reading and navigation skills if your out hiking.
Doesn't change the fact that when it does work a GPS is a LOT easier.
Likewise i could spend weeks reading about consultations stars and astronomy, or i can just hold up my phone and get a good idea what is where.
It also worth pointing out that there are places in the world where a compass will do you no good at all as they are located in very weak magnetic areas.
There is also a strong scientific basis that predicts the poles have shifted many times during the history of our planet and they will again.
A compass and map is not infallible either, i've lost a fair few compasses over the years, and in my younger less organised days i can't tell you how many times i went out with the wrong map
So it doesn't matter what skills, tools or gadgets you posses there is no making up for stupid
Cheers
Mark
Even then it was fitted by her daughter and son and she hardly ever uses it.
Her accent is extremely strong plus she has no teeth and my Greek is not exactly good, so it's difficult to understand everything.
But she distrusts these new modern lights, ironically she feels they are dangerous compared to the oil burning lamps she's been using her entire life.
Likewise the electric cooker, kettle etc.
She also says that she enjoys the procedure of starting a fire, tendering it and cooking on it, she says the light from the oil lamp is more relaxing than the electric bulb.
She has only left village once and never left the island as she hates, cars buses, boats, planes etc.
My point it we take for granted many things that some would wrap up into "technology".
Many of us take our cars or vans to get to a decent site.
We make arrangements with friends vis the phone or the internet.
We order stuff electronically, that is then flown, shipped or driven to us.
Even if we use man made materials all but a very few will be made on electronic looms, cutters sewing machines.
Take away everything that has not been made from start to finish by hand, using something made from start to finish by hand (i.e knife, axe etc) and we are left with very very tools, gadgets, possessions.
I don't think there is one person on this forum that would argue that you NEED map reading and navigation skills if your out hiking.
Doesn't change the fact that when it does work a GPS is a LOT easier.
Likewise i could spend weeks reading about consultations stars and astronomy, or i can just hold up my phone and get a good idea what is where.
It also worth pointing out that there are places in the world where a compass will do you no good at all as they are located in very weak magnetic areas.
There is also a strong scientific basis that predicts the poles have shifted many times during the history of our planet and they will again.
A compass and map is not infallible either, i've lost a fair few compasses over the years, and in my younger less organised days i can't tell you how many times i went out with the wrong map
So it doesn't matter what skills, tools or gadgets you posses there is no making up for stupid
Cheers
Mark
Very decent of you
Dont sweat it if you have sent it to Mazuma though - I can muddle through just ignoring all the junk on my new phone
Cheers
John
We have a summer house on Lesvos (a Greek island) and there is a old woman in the village that has only electricity in her house the last 20 years.
Even then it was fitted by her daughter and son and she hardly ever uses it.
Her accent is extremely strong plus she has no teeth and my Greek is not exactly good, so it's difficult to understa everything.
But she distrusts these new modern lights, ironically she feels they are dangerous compared to the oil burning lamps she's been using her entire life.
Likewise the electric cooker, kettle etc.
She also says that she enjoys the procedure of starting a fire, tendering it and cooking on it, she says the light from the oil lamp is more relaxing than the electric bulb.
She has only left village once and never left the island as she hates, cars buses, boats, planes etc.
My point it we take for granted many things that some would wrap up into "technology".
Many of us take our cars or vans to get to a decent site.
We make arrangements with friends vis the phone or the internet.
We order stuff electronically, that is then flown, shipped or driven to us.
Even if we use man made materials all but a very few will be made on electronic looms, cutters sewing machines.
Take away everything that has not been made from start to finish by hand, using something made from start to finish by hand (i.e knife, axe etc) and we are left with very very tools, gadgets, possessions.
I don't think there is one person on this forum that would argue that you NEED map reading and navigation skills if your out hiking.
Doesn't change the fact that when it does work a GPS is a LOT easier.
Likewise i could spend weeks reading about consultations stars and astronomy, or i can just hold up my phone and get a good idea what is where
It also worth pointing out that there are places in the world where a compass will do you no good at all as they are located in very weak magnetic areas.
There is also a strong scientific basis that predicts the poles have shifted many times during the history of our planet and they will again.
A compass and map is not infallible either, i've lost a fair few compasses over the years, and in my younger less organised days i can't tell you how many times i went out with the wrong map
So it doesn't matter what skills, tools or gadgets you posses there is no making up for stupid
Cheers
Mark
This bit go me thinking ......We order stuff electronically, that is then flown, shipped or driven to us...........and the thread on army surplus being more web based ...tek has really taken hold ..I'm working in London and in my hotel room tv on remote control next to me and on my iPad, thinking of ordering a late night snack from room service .but not now ,no way I'm going to take my EDC out and hunt me some supper maybe Richmond deer park or epping forest,but then the Sean from crocodile Dundee springs to mind ----- you call that a knife ! No me and my sub 3" are having a BLT after all .
Old fashioned now I thought, superseded by the likes of my Galaxy S2
I take a phone, might start taking the laptop and a dongle with me, phone is the most important for me, call the family, call for help, bit of music I suppose.
A little Radio is vital for me, Radio4/World Service, Book At Bedtime, shipping forecast (no, don't have a boat but me and the lad listen to it, sort of a tradition for us) etc.
Sent from my Galaxy S2 without tapatalk.
Ps on a long weekend I take a nasal/ear trimmer with me; nothing worse than an annoying hair up your nose or in your ear you can't budge.
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I love my tech. Phone, torch, jet lighter etc... do I rely on any of? nope I will probs one day use a geomapper one day but never before I can use OS maps and a compass properly. Technology isn't just about gadgets it's also about footware, new synthetic materials etc and I think most take full advantage of some of it.
I will probs one day use a geomapper one day but never before I can use OS maps and a compass properly. Technology isn't just about gadgets it's also about footware, new synthetic materials etc and I think most take full advantage of some of it.
I'm glad I'm old enough to have learned all the basic skills before the overwhelming tide of technology flooded the market.
I take a phone with me, it's got gigs of music if I fancy a listen, an alarm clock if I need to get up, tells the time and allows me to phone my family if need be. What's not to like about that? Obviously I use a lot of traditional stuff including a map and compass. Don't see the point in anyone getting het up about having a phone but there you go, different strokes for different folks like anything in life...
I always take:
My mobile phone
A head torch (plus bike lights, if I'm cycle touring)
I sometimes take
My radio, if there's something I really want to know about for that trip (the weather, for example, or if there's something going on in current affairs)
I don't like the idea of taking a device I'll be plugged into, like music. I have a theory now I no longer have a record collection that I don't value music as much now it's so easy to get. Plus, I feel that headphones and backlit screens isolate you from your environment. I could listen to music and look at a screen at home.
However, I am buying a GPS when I go canoeing in Sweden. It will live with my phone at the bottom of my dry bag and probably won't be used, but it might save my life if something goes wrong.
My mobile phone
A head torch (plus bike lights, if I'm cycle touring)
I sometimes take
My radio, if there's something I really want to know about for that trip (the weather, for example, or if there's something going on in current affairs)
I don't like the idea of taking a device I'll be plugged into, like music. I have a theory now I no longer have a record collection that I don't value music as much now it's so easy to get. Plus, I feel that headphones and backlit screens isolate you from your environment. I could listen to music and look at a screen at home.
However, I am buying a GPS when I go canoeing in Sweden. It will live with my phone at the bottom of my dry bag and probably won't be used, but it might save my life if something goes wrong.
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