Bushcraft Qualifications.

[johnboy]

Hi,

After following the thread about Training courses over on the General Bushcraft forum and reading about Plumpton college and its course.

I was wondering if some one who's in the know could perhaps give the definative answers to the following questions.

1. Is there a Nationally administered and recognised qualification for teaching Bushcraft and Its associated skills?

2. Should there be one?

Food for thought!!

Cheers

John

 

[Stuart]

I could be wrong but as far as i am aware there is no nationally recognised qualification as a bushcraft unstructor

though there are a number of instructor courses

there would be some benifit to being a nationally recognised qualification such as students being assured that their instructor knows what he is talking about and is not some cowboy

however there are also big drawbacks! like preventing some of the best outdoors men from being able to teach because they dont hold the qualification, many people are the top of their field without ever doing a course, most of the countrys best trackers, foragers, and trappers have no qualifications for what they do

 

[johnboy]

Thanks for the reply.
So that means that anybody with enough funds or an understanding bank manager can set themselves up in business as a bushcraft / survival school without anybody checking that they have ANY ability to teach the subject :shock:

Cheers

John

 

[Rob]

This seems to be the first (or so it says).

There are a lot of opinions about the value of a course like this.

I dont know if I would want to go on a course run by:
a) someone who had little "actual" experience, but had been taught to teach
or
b) someone with worlds of experience, but who may struggle on the teaching side.

These are the extremes, and I am happy to say that most of the people that I have learnt from (not just in Bushcraft but my other passions) have been truly inspiring.

I think that some of the course contents would be very suited to people wanting to take groups outdoors - and the prospectus makes no secret of this. If you are taking kids on nature walks, or adults, think of the reaction you will get from others when you light a fire by friction, or demonstrate another of the amazing skills/arts that go with this subject.

The current system of "Bushcraft School owner interviews and checks out prospective job applicants" will not change - I hope. But the knowledge of the legal and other aspects - such as Risk Assessment - may well aid a candidate to rise above another if there are two on the short list.

As for a "Controlling Body", that is something that the current generation of teachers must decide on, as that is how these things usually start. I hope they decide on inaction. The thought of an "Institute of Bushcraft Teachers" makes my skin crawl, as my experience of these "clubs" in other industries and fields has often not been as positive as it could have been. Sometimes the level you reach has no bearing on your usefulness to the field.

The other end of the stick - I hope to do a Fisheries management qualification next year - I like fishing. Maybe I would consider a course like the one at Plumpton if it felt right and taught me more about one of the subjects that I love.

My opinion - hope I haven't offended.

 

[Ed]

b) someone with worlds of experience, but who may struggle on the teaching side.

Wise words indeed..... Just because someone is skilled, doesn't mean that that someone has the ability to pass this knowledge on.

Ed

 

[bothyman]

b) someone with worlds of experience, but who may struggle on the teaching side.

One way to evaluate your Teachers

>> http://wmuma.com/spiritual/spiritualteachers.html

 

[george]

All good points, but I would suggest that some of the qualifications, if not the skills, that are neccessary are covered by existing qualifications such as the Mountain Leaders qual, Canoe coach etc. These qualifications cover the safety aspects of an activity along with some instructional skills training, but they dont cover how you can use the skills. For example, if I take someone out canoeing I could use that session to teach them canoeing skills, we could just be out for a jaunt or we could go fishing or whatever - thats up to me - but I must at least operate that session as safely as the standards demand.

Bushcraft schools operating in an outdoor environment will already have had to reassure their insurers that they are operating to an industry standard. If they are working with under 18 year olds they will very probably have to register with the Adventure Activities Licencing Authority. They will have to ensure that they are using appropriately skilled and trained people to run the courses that they offer. This doesn't mean that they have to be qualified by any National Governing Body but it does mean that the standards set by the appropriate NGB qualification will usually be taken as the benchmark for the levels of experience and abilities of staff. If there was an accident involving a Bushcraft School operating in an environment covered by an existing qualification and staff weren't qualified, then the Bushcraft School would have a hard job on their hands trying to prove that they weren't negligent.

Some outdoor centres work around this by using "techies" who are fully qualified and who oversee the safety of a programme, while course tutors, who are skilled at delivering whatever the programme is, teach.

I would hope that the skills, knowledge and experience that many many unqualified people have is valued and saved and passed on to others, but I would also hope that if someone is operating a business doing this, that they are operating to the highest possible standards of safety and good practise.

George

 

[TheViking]

Hi...

This may be a little old thread.... :shock:
Don't think there should be any form of 'education' in teaching bushcraft. It's better that people knows a little about it, instead of ending up in a survival situation and don't know anything.... :biggthump

That's my opinion anyway... :biggthump :wave:

 

[Gary]

:?:

 

[Fallow Way]

Personally I think a qualification in Bushcraft is not a good thing, for many of the reasons already discussed.

What I am trying to do (as i`m sure many others are) is gain enough knowledge and experience to feel comfortable teaching. At the minute I have sooo many poeple wanting me to teach courses but i am turning them down as I do not feel right in teaching. I may have a good grounding in knowledge, but personally I want to have a number of years of experience before I start teaching.

At present I am limiting myself to doing "introductions to....". This, as it sounds, is just to frame the subject of bushcraft, demonstrate a few of the skills, let them have a go and then guide them towards organisations that can then teach them properly. I feel comfortable doing this level as it is based on my own experiences, my own bushcraft to date, and that I really want poeple to become interested in the subject. I dont get paid for it (if money is offered I ask that it is given to a charity) and do it soley to promote bushcraft.

 

[Quill]

Not trying to be antagonistic, but I know quite a few cowboys who know their bushcraft as well throwing a rope and branding stock. Must have a different meaning over your way. :?:

 

[Wayne]

i have just received my comfirmation for an interview with a view to doing the Plumpton course run by John Ryder. it is asking that i take my regular bushcraft kit with me to preform a few basics like fire lighting and tool use plus plant lore. This suprised me to some extent for i have 15 years teaching experience. I was expecting to be interviewed on my suitablity to teach my personality and my views on our countryside. the techniques involved in bushcraft are what i was expecting to learn in detail.

Perhaps i am missing the point if i can already perform all the skills involved then i don't need the course.

i realise that skill in a subject doesnt mean you can succesfully pass the knowledge on. however that is the skills i was hoping to sharpen and to learn the latest legal implications of teaching.

there are many rogues in most fields and some of these are very qualified to national standards. the worst instruction i have received was on a 2 courses run by one of the national watersport centres. the teaching was by rote with no attention to individual needs. the syallabus requires abc so that i was we shall do.

i pray that bushcraft doesnt follow this route. there are many fine people out there wishing to learn let us hope they are taught the spirit and well as the technique of bushcraft.

 

[Adi007]

My feelings on this subject are that there are no right answers and no shortcuts. if you had a standard qualification you'd have a situation like driving schools - you still find good ones and awful ones, all certified to an approved standard.

On the other hand you could regulate the industry in the way other lesisure activities are (and let's face it, no matter how much gloss is put on it, it is a leisure activity for most people who participate) but then that's tried in other areas.

Bushcraft is not courses or brand names or showing off or the latest knife or kit or being taught by someone off the telly or from a book. Bushcraft is a commitment to lifelong learning about the outdoors - nature, weather, terrain, plant and animal life, biology, chemistry, physics ... the stuff of life that takes us closer to what the actually are, rather than think we have become. A course or book or watching a TV program can play a part in the learning, but that alone is not bushcraft!

:chill:

 

[jakunen]

A very thorny subject.
By having a national body, with some form of registration, it would give Jo Public a sense of reassurance, that all the affiliated schools were taking things seriously.
However, having seen the sort of buraucracy that the government always piles on those wanting to be regulated, it drives many to either say "Hang it all, I can't be bothered. I'm going back to office work", or the cost of running the business goes up due to having to retain a legal advisor, employ a team to cope with the forty thousand forms, the insurance for this and that, the expensive external training to cover all the required paperwork etc., and the very spirit of the topic is lost as people become disheartened with the red tape or just to bogged down dealing with it and having to get others, who may not be as passionate about the subject, to do the teaching.

And the point about not all qualified peole being able to teach, I had a lecturer who had degrees and certificates coming out of his ears btu who couldn't teach chemistry as he made the whole thing so boring, a lot of us decided to get a degree in darts and beer, btu when his boss (who had a LOT of experience, but only a few qualifications) took over the group, the landlord
complained that his profits were drying up...

 

[leon-1]

Anyone ever heard this before ; those that can do it, do it, those that can't teach.

Well bushcraft is a multi faceted thing, if you can't do it you may end up in trouble, if you can and have difficulties in the teaching role fine, you can always take on an advisory role.

Although it is not an industry, I can see the point for an industry standard, as this would provide a benchmark that all schools would have to achieve, it also means that courses would be more singular.

In this I mean that you would learn fewer skills per course, a lot of the courses that I have seen cost a lot of money and teach a mass of subject matter in a short space of time.

It gives you a broad spectrum of knowledge within the group, but as an individual you may only come away with a few bits, this can/will make things awkward at a later date.

If however you did bushcraft qualifications in modules, like computer quals or diving (MCP within MCSE varying levels of BSAC), it would be possible to have people who are highly qualified within thier field, teaching specific subjects that they specialise in to novices. At the end you come out with a foundation course that can be put towards a later qualification, but you would still have to show that you are capable of doing all aspects to a degree to achieve the later qualification.

 

[Gary]

A most excellent point made there by young Adi! And as Jakunen points out with anything official comes the red tape.

At the end of the day I think it is safe to say that regulation will never happen and so all you can do is use your sense when shopping for courses - but that is a thread we have beaten to death many times on here.

As for Wayne's comment - I must be missing the point too mate because that seems odd to me as well!

 

[MartiniDave]

One of the things that attracted me to bushcraft, and I have to say I'm a fairly casual bushcrafter in that I mainly do a bit of carving, bit of making, some hunter/gathering but very little overnight stuff, was that I felt it was somethign I could just go and do.
I chose to do a couple of courses, nobody said I had to. Coming from the shooting world where everything is legislated to hell and getting worse, that was a real breath of fresh air.
I don't think I like the idea of "the institiute of advanced bushcraft" or whatever. Live and let live, do what you do. If you are unsure about a given school, ask here and I'm sure you'll get an honest, unbiased answer.

Dave

Tuppences will not be refunded!

 

[jakunen]

Totally flippant thought, and sorry to bring the tone down, but...
In places like Africa and New Zealand, every father hands his bushcraft skills and knowledge down to his sons, he has no formal qualification, he is just in tune with his world and is practised in his skills. And there is no formal regulation, apart from the knowledge and wisdom of the ancestors.
Sorry, just remembered a converstaion with a friends husband from some years ago who is a Maori.
(probably gonna get flamed now...)

 

[NickBristol]

I totally agree with you Jakunen - so we can be flamed together, tho people are really too nice here to do much flaming...Hopefully :rolmao:

I learned most from my father and will be forever in his debt for the skills and attitudes he taught me by taking me outdoors, or even just to his garage - to learn about wood, tools, science, art and nature and how to survive. I think the best teachers are those that can ignite that spark of interest in our hearts that moves us on to keep learning and to keep experimenting and to keep experiencing. Having a formal qualification isn't necessary unless you want to teach formally, and then I think it should lean more towards creating a safe teaching environment and how to properly run a teaching business. Having a qualification that simply states you can start a fire by friction in under a minute isn't what Bushcrafting (is that a word?!?) is about. Good schools will always get a good reputation and it's forums like these that allow that reputation to foster openly.

 

[jakunen]

I think the best teachers are those that can ignite that spark of interest in our hearts that moves us on to keep learning and to keep experimenting and to keep experiencing.

I couldn't agree more! If you can set the spark, the flames can onyl grow with encouragement.

My grandfather was a master carpenter and cabinet maker. I have fond memories of sitting on his knee in his workshop and being told which wood was which, which ones were good for building carcases, which were prized for inlays etc. I got my love for wood from him and, while I'm nowhere NEAR as good a carpenter as him, I still yearn to learn more, to build better pieces, all because he took an annoying little bugger who wouldn't stop asking questions and opened his eyes and set a spark in his heart and mind.
I still can't pass a beautiful piece of furniture without running my fingers over it and thinking fondly of the old man.
Cor, feel all misty eyed now...