You are more than welcome. You should have enough there to make yourself a nice container too if you wish.
:thumbup:
touched by nature
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touched by nature
Bushcraft Beginnings - Fire.
- Thread starter THOaken
- Start date
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THoaken
I've just watched your video again - and if you want me to be super-critical.....
When you strike down with your striker, you should stop the stroke before it reaches the end of the flint, if it drops off the end of the ferro rod, there is a tendency to smother any spark/heat/flame with a large, cold striker - this might be why you had little success in the past. There is, of course, the alternative method of holding the striker still and drawing the rod up under it!
When you first slowly scraped some shavings onto the pile of birch, you then aerated the pile and hence those shavings would have fallen through the pile and been masked by the birch itself - arrange the pile first, then scrape the shavings onto it, then strike the sparks to hit those shavings.
I also believe that you are "thinking" about things too deeply - I know the once you get better at it, there will be a number of methods that you can use and when one doesn't produce results, you can move seamlessly onto another method.
The birch curls in today's photo still look too big for easy ignition - try to scrape them finer if you can, try scraping more gently, slowly and with less pressure.
Be careful though, it does get very addictive!
ATB
Ogri the trog
I've just watched your video again - and if you want me to be super-critical.....
When you strike down with your striker, you should stop the stroke before it reaches the end of the flint, if it drops off the end of the ferro rod, there is a tendency to smother any spark/heat/flame with a large, cold striker - this might be why you had little success in the past. There is, of course, the alternative method of holding the striker still and drawing the rod up under it!
When you first slowly scraped some shavings onto the pile of birch, you then aerated the pile and hence those shavings would have fallen through the pile and been masked by the birch itself - arrange the pile first, then scrape the shavings onto it, then strike the sparks to hit those shavings.
I also believe that you are "thinking" about things too deeply - I know the once you get better at it, there will be a number of methods that you can use and when one doesn't produce results, you can move seamlessly onto another method.
The birch curls in today's photo still look too big for easy ignition - try to scrape them finer if you can, try scraping more gently, slowly and with less pressure.
Be careful though, it does get very addictive!
ATB
Ogri the trog
HI, sorry I haven't read the whole thread so not sure if this has already been said.
Have you tried to split the twigs down the middle with a sharp knife to make them thinner? I do this when I can't find anything matchstick thickness. But be careful with your fingers when using a knife.
Also, I live in Orkney which has very little trees, let alone woodland. But I am always playing with fire to some degree - wilderness or not.
I collect all of the twigs from my bushes in the garden every year. I have bags stored up in my shed of mostly willow tips which dry out on the bush and I just harvest them. I also collect bundles of couch grass and dry them out before bagging them up as well as tinder. I also collect moss when I find it, dry it and bag it. If I see something when out and about and I think it will make making a fire easier, I collect it up and save it 'til I need it. When there is such little resources available to begin with, we have to make the most of whatever we can find.
Have you tried to split the twigs down the middle with a sharp knife to make them thinner? I do this when I can't find anything matchstick thickness. But be careful with your fingers when using a knife.
Also, I live in Orkney which has very little trees, let alone woodland. But I am always playing with fire to some degree - wilderness or not.
I collect all of the twigs from my bushes in the garden every year. I have bags stored up in my shed of mostly willow tips which dry out on the bush and I just harvest them. I also collect bundles of couch grass and dry them out before bagging them up as well as tinder. I also collect moss when I find it, dry it and bag it. If I see something when out and about and I think it will make making a fire easier, I collect it up and save it 'til I need it. When there is such little resources available to begin with, we have to make the most of whatever we can find.
Hello, BC UK. I've just spent the night experimenting with trying to create my first proper sustainable fire.
Good news, bad news and a lot of questions...
Setting up the fire:
So here I laid down my platform. Standard stuff.
Crossed kindling. "Small stick fire" method:
Put strips of birch bark underneath the kindling:
Lighting the birch shavings:
This, obviously, is the problem once again. I'm not going to lie. It took me almost an hour to get flame, by which point I almost couldn't strike anymore for my hands hurting. I don't know if the bark was dried out or two thin to get any real shavings, but I hardly got any. What you see there is the product of shaving from several sections of bark. I have a question about my Ray Mears Woodlore Fire Steel. I don't know if I got a defunct one when I ordered, but no matter how much effort I exerted into the push, I hardly get any shavings. Only 1% of the time would I get that sizzling sound, but every other video I see of Fire Steels there seem to be such little effort put into the strike and there's a large amount of sparks produced. I tried everything single method. I struck with a higher angle and didn't let the striker reach the end of the rod, either. Also, what's with the idea of having the striker have no handle? I mean, what kind of a design is that, Woodlore? I don't know if I should try and get another Fire Steel. What's the "softest" Fire Steel BC UK knows of?
Fire:
Now, while I'm happy I created fire, and it's the biggest one yet and lasted for probably 15 minutes, there were serious problems. I think I can say it was my fault, because I panicked and heaped thumb thickness fuel on top of it and smothered it. But there was a point at the beginning where the fire was lopsided. It had only caught on one side. I had to pick up half of the kindling and hold it up in the air to direct the flames to the center. I thought the fire was structurally sound, but apparently it wasn't as it completely crumbled and died out after 15 minutes, maybe a bit less. Instead of resembling a large pyramid of fire, it was burning quite close to the platform and it all just broke apart. It was incredibly hot though, and it didn't take long to start. It just wasn't your typical triangular shaped fire, it was darting off to the side and it was very low. As far as I know, I set up the fire alright, though.
Aside from the tortuous Fire Steel experience, I'm just glad I progressed. It may be a laughable attempt to some of you veterans, but I'm happy it lasted longer than a few minutes.
This is as much as I can remember about the experience so far, but I'll update this post with any new information or questions I might have.
Good news, bad news and a lot of questions...
Setting up the fire:
So here I laid down my platform. Standard stuff.
Crossed kindling. "Small stick fire" method:
Put strips of birch bark underneath the kindling:
Lighting the birch shavings:
This, obviously, is the problem once again. I'm not going to lie. It took me almost an hour to get flame, by which point I almost couldn't strike anymore for my hands hurting. I don't know if the bark was dried out or two thin to get any real shavings, but I hardly got any. What you see there is the product of shaving from several sections of bark. I have a question about my Ray Mears Woodlore Fire Steel. I don't know if I got a defunct one when I ordered, but no matter how much effort I exerted into the push, I hardly get any shavings. Only 1% of the time would I get that sizzling sound, but every other video I see of Fire Steels there seem to be such little effort put into the strike and there's a large amount of sparks produced. I tried everything single method. I struck with a higher angle and didn't let the striker reach the end of the rod, either. Also, what's with the idea of having the striker have no handle? I mean, what kind of a design is that, Woodlore? I don't know if I should try and get another Fire Steel. What's the "softest" Fire Steel BC UK knows of?
Fire:
Now, while I'm happy I created fire, and it's the biggest one yet and lasted for probably 15 minutes, there were serious problems. I think I can say it was my fault, because I panicked and heaped thumb thickness fuel on top of it and smothered it. But there was a point at the beginning where the fire was lopsided. It had only caught on one side. I had to pick up half of the kindling and hold it up in the air to direct the flames to the center. I thought the fire was structurally sound, but apparently it wasn't as it completely crumbled and died out after 15 minutes, maybe a bit less. Instead of resembling a large pyramid of fire, it was burning quite close to the platform and it all just broke apart. It was incredibly hot though, and it didn't take long to start. It just wasn't your typical triangular shaped fire, it was darting off to the side and it was very low. As far as I know, I set up the fire alright, though.
Aside from the tortuous Fire Steel experience, I'm just glad I progressed. It may be a laughable attempt to some of you veterans, but I'm happy it lasted longer than a few minutes.
This is as much as I can remember about the experience so far, but I'll update this post with any new information or questions I might have.
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THOaken,
That's the thing with fire, it is a natural (!) process and will burn lop-sided, uneven, sometimes bursting into action and sometimes barely smouldering. You have, in the early stages, to coax it into life by turning it and adding the right size fuel at the right time - and you can put a fire out by adding fuel that is too thick before the fire is ready to cope with it.
I am surprised that you are still having difficulties with your firesteel and striker - especially as it seems to be causing such fatigue and near injury. If you want a handle on it, put one on or find something that will strike the rod that does have a handle - knife spines are popular, but try any piece of steel, old steel door keys, bits of flint, broken glass, even coins that have been roughed up!
I also think that you should begin to broaden your repertoire - not to exclude birch, but to find other tinder's that may be easier for your individual style of fire lighting preference - perhaps to include other methods of ignition (there are firesteels available that are spring-loaded and can be struck with one hand) traditional flint & steel, solar lenses, fire pistons and not ignoring the modern methods of matches & lighters. You'll find that igniting your fire is very different with a match but the coaxing and maintenance of the resulting fire will still need to be learned and practised.
It is possible to ignite feather shaved sticks from a firesteel, but if you are having issues with striking sparks, maybe now is not the time to try that!
Good luck
Ogri the trog
That's the thing with fire, it is a natural (!) process and will burn lop-sided, uneven, sometimes bursting into action and sometimes barely smouldering. You have, in the early stages, to coax it into life by turning it and adding the right size fuel at the right time - and you can put a fire out by adding fuel that is too thick before the fire is ready to cope with it.
I am surprised that you are still having difficulties with your firesteel and striker - especially as it seems to be causing such fatigue and near injury. If you want a handle on it, put one on or find something that will strike the rod that does have a handle - knife spines are popular, but try any piece of steel, old steel door keys, bits of flint, broken glass, even coins that have been roughed up!
I also think that you should begin to broaden your repertoire - not to exclude birch, but to find other tinder's that may be easier for your individual style of fire lighting preference - perhaps to include other methods of ignition (there are firesteels available that are spring-loaded and can be struck with one hand) traditional flint & steel, solar lenses, fire pistons and not ignoring the modern methods of matches & lighters. You'll find that igniting your fire is very different with a match but the coaxing and maintenance of the resulting fire will still need to be learned and practised.
It is possible to ignite feather shaved sticks from a firesteel, but if you are having issues with striking sparks, maybe now is not the time to try that!
Good luck
Ogri the trog
I would suggest making a modern fire until you get to understand the nature of fire and how it burns. Use matches and even fire lighters in place of birch and ferro rod. Build it in the same way, but place a fire lighter under it and ignite that. Sometimes, it is necccessary to blow on the base of the fire to get it to catch properly - even with modern fore lighters. This is something else to learn as blowing to hard scatters the embers and put it out, too little and it just smoulders and vanishes.
Once you have mastered the fire itself, managing to keep it in until you either run out of fuel or you want it to go out, then worry about actual lighting techniques.
As for tinder, have you tried charcloth? I find that even the smallest spark will catch it. Give it a gentle blow and it begins to glow red, expanding outwards from the initial spark. Add some fine shavings and gently blow on it until they catch and you get a flame. Quickly add some more fuel, only going bigger as the fire gets bigger and able to burn them properly.
If it appears to have gone out, chances are that you will still have plenty of hot embers. Just add some fine kindling to the embers and blow on it until they catch and start again without having to use the rod. And rebuild as required.
I am not sure how others make a fire, but I start small. I have everything ready at the side of me so I don't risk it going out while I look for fuel. I start with my tinder (charcloth is my favourite lately). I ignite that with the rod (two strikes is normally all I need on charcloth). Then I put a small sprinkling of bark shavings on it and blow them into flame. When that has caught, I will add some more shavings, followed by match stick thickness and length tinder a small hadnfull at a time. (I use bark from willow and twigs from willow, split down to the right thickness). Then I blow until the flame is self sufficient, adding more tinder as required, increasing the thickness and length as the flame gets stronger and also the size of the fire. By the time the mini fire is a foot in diameter, I can normally add a mix of kindling and thumb thickness branches without too much risk of smouthering and very little blowing if any.
Sometimes, it may catch very easily and require little effort. But other times, I have to sit with it and have been known to still need to blow on it an hour or more later to get a flame going again. It is all about practice and you will get it right in time.
Once you have mastered the fire itself, managing to keep it in until you either run out of fuel or you want it to go out, then worry about actual lighting techniques.
As for tinder, have you tried charcloth? I find that even the smallest spark will catch it. Give it a gentle blow and it begins to glow red, expanding outwards from the initial spark. Add some fine shavings and gently blow on it until they catch and you get a flame. Quickly add some more fuel, only going bigger as the fire gets bigger and able to burn them properly.
If it appears to have gone out, chances are that you will still have plenty of hot embers. Just add some fine kindling to the embers and blow on it until they catch and start again without having to use the rod. And rebuild as required.
I am not sure how others make a fire, but I start small. I have everything ready at the side of me so I don't risk it going out while I look for fuel. I start with my tinder (charcloth is my favourite lately). I ignite that with the rod (two strikes is normally all I need on charcloth). Then I put a small sprinkling of bark shavings on it and blow them into flame. When that has caught, I will add some more shavings, followed by match stick thickness and length tinder a small hadnfull at a time. (I use bark from willow and twigs from willow, split down to the right thickness). Then I blow until the flame is self sufficient, adding more tinder as required, increasing the thickness and length as the flame gets stronger and also the size of the fire. By the time the mini fire is a foot in diameter, I can normally add a mix of kindling and thumb thickness branches without too much risk of smouthering and very little blowing if any.
Sometimes, it may catch very easily and require little effort. But other times, I have to sit with it and have been known to still need to blow on it an hour or more later to get a flame going again. It is all about practice and you will get it right in time.
Hello, everyone.
I feel like I want to do something either with the striker of my Woodlore firesteel or with my Mora MG Clipper knife itself, so I've been thinking of a few things... I would try my hand at a custom, natural handle, but I think I sharpening the spine of my knife would be easier. I could use the knife on the rod instead of having to rely on the striker. It'd give me a much stronger grip and feel very comfortable, I think.
What's the easiest way of doing it? Could I use a file at a 90 degree angle? I don't have a belt grinder or any serious machinery in the garage. I'm still researching it.
Thanks,
THOaken.
I feel like I want to do something either with the striker of my Woodlore firesteel or with my Mora MG Clipper knife itself, so I've been thinking of a few things... I would try my hand at a custom, natural handle, but I think I sharpening the spine of my knife would be easier. I could use the knife on the rod instead of having to rely on the striker. It'd give me a much stronger grip and feel very comfortable, I think.
What's the easiest way of doing it? Could I use a file at a 90 degree angle? I don't have a belt grinder or any serious machinery in the garage. I'm still researching it.
Thanks,
THOaken.
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THOaken,
A file might work but often the knife spine can be harder than the file teeth!
If you can file it, make sure you don't file a curve onto the spine, so keep the file perfectly flat with the knife clamped low in a vice.
You could also use a sharpening stone and hold the knife inverted and perfectly upright to get a 90 degree corner on it - careful of your fingers!
I would suggest that if your filing or abrading raises a burr, leave it and use that to bite into the firesteel.
You could try making a handle for the striker as another project, but many people rely on a knife spine rather than a short supplied striker!
ATB
Ogri the trog
A file might work but often the knife spine can be harder than the file teeth!
If you can file it, make sure you don't file a curve onto the spine, so keep the file perfectly flat with the knife clamped low in a vice.
You could also use a sharpening stone and hold the knife inverted and perfectly upright to get a 90 degree corner on it - careful of your fingers!
I would suggest that if your filing or abrading raises a burr, leave it and use that to bite into the firesteel.
You could try making a handle for the striker as another project, but many people rely on a knife spine rather than a short supplied striker!
ATB
Ogri the trog
So, something like this?
Top view diagram, spine is in grey, clamp is in brownm, spine put down low so as not to allow the file to follow the curve. Does this look right?
I'm speaking with SWright and he recommends that I use a sharpening stone/sand paper because a file might dig into it. Thoughts?
Edit: I'll settle for a whetstone as it seems to combine the effectiveness of both a file/sandpaper, but not as risky as a file in the sense that I know it won't bite into the knife itself.
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Yes that's it, just keep the file, whetstone at 90 degrees to the spine in a horizontal plane too!
Ogri the trog
Ogri the trog
I think using a vice might make it a little difficult as I can't constantly see the angle.
SWright suggests this method, opposed to the vice: "Stone on the table. A bit of masking tape over the blade so you don't cut yourself.
The knife blade will be facing up, spine against the stone.
You hold the knife in place with your fingers and thumbs, that way you can see constantly of its 90 degrees to the stone. Making minute adjustments as you go without stopping"
Thoughts?
Edit: I realise this should probably go in a separate knife themed thread.
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That's what I'm thinking as well, but I can sort of see Steve's point. But for a whetstone, however, perhaps a vice isn't so great? I don't know. Seems there's quite a few methods to try.
I carry an old number 8 Opinel knife that has seen better days. I use this as my striker instead of using my main knife. Casts plenty of sparks and still comfortable to grip. So instead of altering your main knife, could you not dig out an old carbon bladed pocket knife instead?
I like the idea of modding my mora because then I wouldn't need to carry an extra knife as a striker. Isn't that what Bushcraft is all about, Marco? Efficiency? Anyway, it's a cheap Mora Companion MG Clipper, so if it goes wrong, which I doubt it will as it doesn't seem like a particularly difficult process, I could just buy another one.
Turns out it was the striker all along. I went into the kitchen in search of a knife with a good edge and to use as an example for my Mora modding. Without any force at all I got a proper shower of sparks.
[video=youtube;TULpE72JUG8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TULpE72JUG8&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Edit: Looking at this stone, could anyone tell me if it might require oil or water before I attempt to work the spine?
I can't remember as I bought it quite a while ago and it's just been lying around.
[video=youtube;TULpE72JUG8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TULpE72JUG8&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Edit: Looking at this stone, could anyone tell me if it might require oil or water before I attempt to work the spine?
I can't remember as I bought it quite a while ago and it's just been lying around.
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Great news! Sorry I've not been around much, looks like you've had a pretty torrid time. But now you have a result. I think I suggested trying different strikers back in March.
This should really be in another thread. Mods?
It looks like an aluminium oxide 'stone' which is a man-made agglomerate of small bits of hard material. It doesn't really need anything but you can use oil with it. The idea of the oil is to wash away particles of metal but you can get rid of them without using oil and that can be a little less messy. Water stones are a lot softer and I wouldn't use water with your stone. It looks like you've left it somewhere damp and steel particles that it's collected in its surface have turned to rust particles. That's not good news but it isn't serious, clean them off as best you can with a wire brush or something like that so they don't get impressed into whatever you work on next. By the way oil will tend to stop the particles rusting. You've also been using just the middle of the stone and that will eventually give you a depression there. Try to work all over the surface so it stays flatter, which is better when you sharpen longer straight blades.
Take better care of your tools, and they'll work better for you.
Great news! Sorry I've not been around much, looks like you've had a pretty torrid time. But now you have a result. I think I suggested trying different strikers back in March.
This should really be in another thread. Mods?
It looks like an aluminium oxide 'stone' which is a man-made agglomerate of small bits of hard material. It doesn't really need anything but you can use oil with it. The idea of the oil is to wash away particles of metal but you can get rid of them without using oil and that can be a little less messy. Water stones are a lot softer and I wouldn't use water with your stone. It looks like you've left it somewhere damp and steel particles that it's collected in its surface have turned to rust particles. That's not good news but it isn't serious, clean them off as best you can with a wire brush or something like that so they don't get impressed into whatever you work on next. By the way oil will tend to stop the particles rusting. You've also been using just the middle of the stone and that will eventually give you a depression there. Try to work all over the surface so it stays flatter, which is better when you sharpen longer straight blades.
Take better care of your tools, and they'll work better for you.
Thanks, Ged.
I only used this stone once, many months ago. I know it was foolish of me not to research properly. I don't know... It wasn't lying somewhere damp, though, that I can say.
I'm not entirely convinced of that Ged, this whole thread has been about getting THOaken through his firelighting wall - use of the stone, files etc. has all been part of that journey. I will agree that generalised advice about sharpening stones belongs with cutting tools, but this, I believe, is something different.
I'm glad that THOaken has finally got to the bottom of his problems, and as has already been alluded to - information he knows now may not have been so relevant or as deeply understood when it was first suggested - we've all been on that pathway of tweaks and adjustments that require constant updating of techniques until we reach a breakthrough moment.
ATB
Ogri the trog
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