Be a mensch, don't wear fleece

[santaman2000]

So that's where cotton candy comes from. An ever expanding population, who needs feeding and only so much land to use to grow the crops.

To be honest, enough land to grow food crops is still a long, long way from being a problem. Mississippi alone (a backwards, rural state) is capable of growing more than 10 times the food needed to feed the current global population. The problem is with the preservation and distribution systems. That and the costs associated with said systems.

 

[Imagedude]

I could just as easily say it was due to a butterfly wing in Japan, or an action by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.....

I'm sure that His Noodlyness is in no way responsible for depletion of the ozone layer.

The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster does tell us about the correlation between the lack of pirates and global warming, perhaps there is an inferred relationship between pirates and ozone too!

May you be touched by his noodly appendage, R'amen.

 

[Squidders]

I'm sure that His Noodlyness is in no way responsible for depletion of the ozone layer.

The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster does tell us about the correlation between the lack of pirates and global warming, perhaps there is an inferred relationship between pirates and ozone too!

May you be touched by his noodly appendage, R'amen.

Hear Hear and bloody good show!

 

[Andy BB]

Actually there is evidence that is does have effects on meso-scale ecosystems, which means that it is more likely to have an effect on a global scale.

The remark ocean acidification, NOBODY HAS EVER SAID THAT IT WOULD KILL ALL LIFE! Geez, read the whole article next time, not just the headlines.

Tut tut - I'm sure Gallileo wouldn't use capitals to make his point However, I repeat my point - which you don't deny - that there is no evidence whatsoever on a global scale that this would cause a problem. Problem with limited-scale experiments is that they are just that - limited scale. Sure, a rise in sea temp might kill off coral reefs in their present location. However, that same rise would almost certainly create conditions elsewhere that is ideal for coral growth. Similarly, increases in CO2 help plant life grow faster.............

And I don't think you posted an article on ocean acidification? However, many posts/blogs/articles seem to claim that ocean acidification spells the end - just pointing out that not everything you read is necessarily true!

 

[mountainm]

just pointing out that not everything you read is necessarily true!

...including your diatribe.

 

[Andy BB]

...including your diatribe.

Ooh - cutting

You'll be using capitals next!

 

[mountainm]

Ooh - cutting

Handbags at dawn indeed.

You'll be going back and editing your posts next.

 

[Wayland]

D'ya know what?

I'm almost fifty now, with no kids. Almost all of the blokes in my family tree died in their sixties so I reckon most of the Eco. issues that get raised around here are not going to be my problem.

I use a mixture of synthetic and natural materials like most of us but I do have a strong preference for natural stuff when It's practical.

My reasons for that mostly come down to the fact that they often work better, last longer and stink less than the synthetic equivalents.

I consider my life to be fairly "green" in comparison to many, but that's just the way I live. I don't waste much and my business saves more resources than it uses.

I don't do these things to save a planet that I only have ten or so years stake left in... I do these things because, to me, they simply feel right.

Others may have more of a stake in the mess we're leaving behind us. Some of you may live long enough to actually reap the consequences of our actions. Many of you will leave such problems as a legacy for your children and grandchildren.

Of course you could just argue about the details instead of trying to change the way you do things, that's your choice. But what are you going to say to your grandchildren when they say "Gramps, why is everything so much crappier than it was in your day?"

 

[Andy BB]

Handbags at dawn indeed.

You'll be going back and editing your posts next.

I hope your handbag at least is made of natural materials

 

[decorum]

Having read the thread I ended up thinking of this comedic pic:

Then I shook my head and reclaimed some sanity watching:

[video=youtube;ldlCD7GR2JI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldlCD7GR2JI[/video]

 

[Andy BB]

D'ya know what?

I'm almost fifty now, with no kids. Almost all of the blokes in my family tree died in their sixties so I reckon most of the Eco. issues that get raised around here are not going to be my problem.

I use a mixture of synthetic and natural materials like most of us but I do have a strong preference for natural stuff when It's practical.

My reasons for that mostly come down to the fact that they often work better, last longer and stink less than the synthetic equivalents.

I consider my life to be fairly "green" in comparison to many, but that's just the way I live. I don't waste much and my business saves more resources than it uses.

I don't do these things to save a planet that I only have ten or so years stake left in... I do these things because, to me, they simply feel right.

Others may have more of a stake in the mess we're leaving behind us. Some of you may live long enough to actually reap the consequences of our actions. Many of you will leave such problems as a legacy for your children and grandchildren.

Of course you could just argue about the details instead of trying to change the way you do things, that's your choice. But what are you going to say to your grandchildren when they say "Gramps, why is everything so much crappier than it was in your day?"

Ah, Grasshopper! The naivety of the young Us oldies are much more cynical.

To be honest, if asked the question, I'd probably mention massive population growth, the emergence of large nations (China and India being the most obvious) and their race for energy. I'd probably point out that - year-on-year - China's increase in pollution just from their new coal-fired power stations was greater than the total atmospheric pollution generated by the United Kingdom. At the same time, I'd point out that the UK economy flat-lined under unbearable additional "green" costs and taxes (that made no discernable difference to any global environmental issues and which few other countries paid more than lip-service to) which made our exports uneconomic to sell, which is why their parents are now unemployed and living in a one-room flat on a pittance of unemployment benefit because the country is bankrupt and has no money to give them. I'd say that, thanks to the naive but indoctrinated belief structure that claimed profits were evil, there was no money to pay for education or social services, and their only hope was to emigrate to a country where common sense still prevailed.

But - as I said - I'm a cynic

 

[Toddy]

I'm not......and I would mind you of the no politics rule.......and the UK is a blooming site less bankrupt than many other places. It is also, to my surprise, but facts are chiels that winna ding, an downa be disputed, that we are a major exporter beyond the scale of our landmass or population. We produce over 60% of our own food using only 2% of the population to do so, and on a fraction of the potential land available.
Britain isn't done yet
On the other hand, oceanic pollution can be seen on virtually every shoreline, and more and more evidence accrues of the build up of the results of that within both fish and seamammals.

Scary to think that the way we wash fleece jackets is to blame for any of that pollution.

Toddy

 

[Andy BB]

I'm not......and I would mind you of the no politics rule.......and the UK is a blooming site less bankrupt than many other places. It is also, to my surprise, but facts are chiels that winna ding, an downa be disputed, that we are a major exporter beyond the scale of our landmass or population. We produce over 60% of our own food using only 2% of the population to do so, and on a fraction of the potential land available.
Britain isn't done yet
On the other hand, oceanic pollution can be seen on virtually every shoreline, and more and more evidence accrues of the build up of the results of that within both fish and seamammals.

Scary to think that the way we wash fleece jackets is to blame for any of that pollution.

Toddy

No politics - just economics

And being an oldie, I remember when our exports were twice that of West Germany! (Check out the 1960s if you don't believe me..) Whist you're at it, check out the National Debt, and how much of the nation's annual spend is now borrowed. And to keep it simple, if you keep borrowing on your credit card you'll end up paying more and more just to cover the interest, until you eventually run out of credit with no way to pay either the original spend or the accumulated interest.

Rose-tinted spectacles might look nice, but won't keep the wolf from the door

On the plus side, mixed metaphors are fun!

 

[Toddy]

Nice try, but politics are one thing, economics go from personal household budgets (and affect fleece or wool buying power ) to the wee red suitcase thingie the chancellor uses.

I too mind the 60's and 70's........strikes, no fuel, no heating, people on the breadline, interest rates on mortgages unachievable for the majority, school dinners and free milk because otherwise a hell of a lot of kids went hungry...it'sa better world now than then, and my rose tinted spectacles might look pretty (and they do) but they do help me to see clearly when I read the financial pages.
The last wild wolf in Scotland was shot near Culloden around the time of the last uprising, you can howl all you like but there'll no' be any to call at your door.

The National Debt is actually lower now, even at this last peak, than it was in the 1960's.
http://econ.economicshelp.org/2009/03/historical-national-debt.html

Cycles of economic upheaval are normal.

Anyway, fleece.....did you know that it costs less than 48p a metre x 60" wide, to produce ?......and look what they charge for a jacket

cheers,
Toddy

 

[rik_uk3]

Quality of fleece varies though Mary. I've Tog24 and Berghaus fleeces (Polartec) and they are warmer than a Regatta I also have.

 

[santaman2000]

......Scary to think that the way we wash fleece jackets is to blame for any of that pollution.

Toddy

If we're honest, it's not just fleece. It's everything we wash (or rather the washing itself) that creates a lot of ecological and medical problems. The soaps and other wastes go into the system (even the warmer water itself causes a change) The bleaches we use go down the drain and kill the yeasts needed to process the wastes. The bleaches and the flushed drugs cause more resistant viruses and bacteria.

The plastic bottles we decry are probably causing less harm than the washing and reusing process of the older glass bottles we used to use.

 

[John Fenna]

D'ya know what?

I'm almost fifty now, with no kids. Almost all of the blokes in my family tree died in their sixties so I reckon most of the Eco. issues that get raised around here are not going to be my problem.

I use a mixture of synthetic and natural materials like most of us but I do have a strong preference for natural stuff when It's practical.

My reasons for that mostly come down to the fact that they often work better, last longer and stink less than the synthetic equivalents.

I consider my life to be fairly "green" in comparison to many, but that's just the way I live. I don't waste much and my business saves more resources than it uses.

I don't do these things to save a planet that I only have ten or so years stake left in... I do these things because, to me, they simply feel right.

Others may have more of a stake in the mess we're leaving behind us. Some of you may live long enough to actually reap the consequences of our actions. Many of you will leave such problems as a legacy for your children and grandchildren.

Of course you could just argue about the details instead of trying to change the way you do things, that's your choice. But what are you going to say to your grandchildren when they say "Gramps, why is everything so much crappier than it was in your day?"

I am nearer 60 than 50, no kids and most of the male line before me died before they hit 70 ... so I hear what you say!
I also prefer natural materials on the basis that they tend to work better in a lot of scenarios - but also use synthetics where they have the edge. Although compared to many around here ("West Wales - where old Hippies go to die") we are not considered all that Green we do seem to "repurpose, repair, recycle" a lot more than the mass of the UK population, as well as buying a lot fewer gadgets and gizmos. Our main non food shopping is done in Charity Shops!
There is a lot more interest in recycling these days, which we have to hope will actually reduce pollution, but it is still a fact that the vast percentage of visible pollution, from roadside hedges in the UK to rubbish around villages in the back of beyond in Ghana is non biodegradable plastics.
Along with nuclear waste plastic seems to be our defining legacy to future generations - and I do not think that they will thank us for either!

 

[treadlightly]

I was travelling through the Moroccan Sahara in the autumn and just after leaving a small town was met by the sight of a huge 'sea' of plastic bags strewn across the sand. It really did seem to stretch for miles and I remember the various bright colours glinting in the desert sun.

Yes, you can argue that the extra pollution produced by a newly industrialised China and India makes our emissions targets seem pointless, but individuals doing 'what feels right', using less, recycling more, is nonetheless very important. You do what you can.

 

[wingstoo]

Everests rubbish collection 2011.

And even those who died get left...

http://altereddimensions.net/2012/dead-bodies-on-mount-everest

Some very good points raised, and some quite amusing ones as well, some I won't comment on...

 

[demographic]

All this is fascinating, it really is... But I have about three light fleeces that I wear under my jacket (one at a time) for work.
Between them (all three that is) they cost thirty quid. They have builders silicone on them in places, ones got a bit of paint on the shoulder where I leant against a wall. I'm not fussed about that because they are just cheap work clothes.
Now woollen jumpers just can't compete with that price, I doubt I could get the wool for that.

If you lot want to extol the virtues of a plastic free lifestyle that's fine by me cos I'm pretty sure not being able to tap the words out on a placky keyboard will lessen your output a bit...

I'm happy for you people who go out for a single day or so wearing all natural materials and you stay warm and with Ventile you stay dry (ish) but as soon as January starts I'm putting the roof on a lifeboat station and you can keep all the natural materials in yer bleedin tinfoil covered bug out bags, next to the massive heap of carved spoons you obsess over cos I'm wearing the brightest orange Gore Tex imaginable with fleece underneath.


I can't be done with things that require too much time to dry out (Ventile) or fancy washing (wool) or cost a fortune (both of those) compared to something that just works.



As for the "Be a Mensche" thing? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight...