Wolves In Scotland.....

[Geuf]

yeah, animal rights....

In many ways those people are the same as for example my dad, wo says he´s a dog lover and he does love his dog. But he isn´t showing it by stuffing it with scraps from the table that even I wouldn´t be able to finish. So that what once was a raging grayhound, now looks a bit more like a supersized, puffy hairy thing with thin legs and lays on the couch all.. day... long..

 

[silvergirl]

Geuf,

the above article doesn't mention animal rights, just the fears of Esate owners who charge thousands for people to get the privilage to go and hunt deer, that wolves may take their best animals. Which is daft because wolves would target weak and young animals.

Also the farmers who are concerned about loss of livestock.

Traditionallly people who farm/ manage the land do not like any compition when it comes to hunting. Look at the poisoning and raiding of eagle/kite/osprey nests that goes on still.

I think re-introduction of wolves would be great. But it would need a hugh positive media drive to make it acceptable.

I live on a shooting estate, surronded by woodland, perfect territory. I wouldn't worry about my kids going into the woods to play even if wolves were introduced. I'm more worried about them when there is shooting going on.

Planning on spening several weeks in scandanavia this summer, hope I see some wolves but I'm not counting on it.

 

[gregorach]

No, it was me who mentioned animal rights - specifically the "silly" end of the movement that gets all shirty whenever anyone suggests that a cute animal needs to be controlled. It may have been an error...

I have no problems at all with the animal rights movement as a whole, just certain over-sentimental elements within it. Like the ones who say things like "We shouldn't cull the deer - man shouldn't interefere with nature. We should feed them if there isn't enough grazing." (that's a paraphrase of something actually said on TV by Linda McCartney).

 

[Thorfinn]

Really good points made there, I say bring them back, it's only stupid humans who cause the trouble in my eyes.
And why stop there we should bring back the beaver too and other extinct animals. It will do the enviroment good after all.

 

[silvergirl]

Sorry Gregorach you're right.

I guess what those poeple have failed to realise is that people have been interfering with nature ever since we picked up a pointy stick and though 'now what can I do with this'

When we get an opportunity to try to right some of the wrongs of the past as a spieces we just seem to shrug and say Nah to much hassle.

 

[hammock monkey]

wolf, beaver and lynx would be awesome in the wilder parts.
the idea of having secluded islands is perfect - how can anyone not agree with that!?
hopefully the shift towards produce actually grown on our island will up the farmers income up there anyway, and a good bit more of wildlife tourism would help i'm sure. That way the farmers get a good deal, and get paid properly for looking after such a valuable place.

the only trouble is, i hope when i'm up there its nice and empty wrt tourists....

 

[big_swede]

Planning on spening several weeks in scandanavia this summer, hope I see some wolves but I'm not counting on it.

Sorry to disappoint you silvergirl, but there are between 185-320 wolves in all of scandinavia, with 125-175 in Finland so chances are slim to none. The scandinavian wolves suffer from severe inbreeding because they are isolated from the rest of the eurasian wolf stock. The main reason for the isolation being illegal hunting in the far north between sweden and finland, where the wolf cause big problems for the reindeer herders.

If you want to have a chance to see them you should go to the noweigan 'fylken' (shires) Hedmark, Akershus or Østfold. On the swedish side, the counties Dalarna, Härjedalen, Närke and Värmland have the densest population (densest isn't a good word, least scarce is maybe better). I don't know about the situation in Finland.

 

[jerv]

east finland mohko (umlauts over the "o"s) next to russia loads of animals finlands biggest wolf population. I've spent alot of time in scandinavia and found only scats and tracks. But to tell you the truth that's more than enough!
Gregorach. i was looking at some population demographics and I believe that the population in the Highlands is roughly the same as it was in about the 1740's. Of course the people now live in large towns instead of small isolated townships but it's prettty interesting all the same.
"interfering with nature" is a strange expression. we are not seperate from it we are just out of harmony with it.
"80 percent of sheep deaths accounted to wolves" hmmmmmm?
Nice EU subsidy for every wolf killed sheep. I remember a few years back the EU started to question the Wolf payouts made to french sheep farmers. They estimated that even if every wolf in france had been eating nothing but sheep they still wouldn't have been able to kill the amount of sheep claimed by the farmers.
I think we have a choice wolves or sheep which would you rather live with?
A beautiful, deadly, intelligent animal that plays an absolutely (and currently empty) vital role in the Ecosystem or, Fluffy imbeciles spreading big sodding ticks all over our mountains and without enough animal wit not to fall off cliffs,waterfalls or into rivers.
I have to rescue the neighbours sheep all the time because they seem to be unable to go near the pond without falling in it!

 

[jojo]

there was an article in the Guardian yesterday about the same study. They estimated that up to 500 wolves could be released across the Highlands, allowing up to 25 wolves a territory of about 1000 sq km. Within 50 to 60 years, they calculate, deer number would fall to a quarter of the present level. Apparently some estimate that there are up to 500 000 deer could be roaming the hills.

I don't think it will happen, certainly not in my life time. I think the question really is: do we humans want wolves, linx, or even the beaver? I don' think the majority do or care.

"globally accepted guidelines on reintroducing species set out by the World Conservation Union made it clear that if an animal was once hunted to extinction by humans, it would be unacceptable to reintroduce that animal where it would again be targeted by man"

I don't think there is the will, apart from small minorities of people like me and you who would dearly want to know that the animals are "out there", to reintroduce these animals. The environment is only a priority to politicians when it becomes a convenient bandwagon and to most people for what they can get out of it. You must not let it get in the way of progress or "the economy". :tapedshut

Some guy called Abba Eban once said : History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.

Personally, I would love to see these animals reintroduced and I would not even need to see them, just knowing, perhaps finding tracks would de enough.

 

[filcon]

The Eagle and wolf followed and cleaned up the deer for hundreds of years.Theres plenty of room for everybody,it,ll maybe even keep the pot noodle hikers of the hills.The deer need culled to preserve the herd, the weak and old are targeted. The wolf does the same , but they also go for the newborn and young ones.Everybody up north is eating venison burgers till its coming out of their lugs, the deer are like cattle in most areas.The most important issue regarding their re introduction is the opportunities of diversity to the land owners. The sea eagle, the red kite ,the beaver have all been a great success. Like it or not at the end of the day an estate needs income to survive, what we need is a balance.Personally I don,t want any tree huggin, pot noodling hikers visitors on the hills .If they are not prepared to respect the countryside and its wildlife ,then I wish they would stay at home . The hills belong to ALBA and everbody else is a visitor , so don,t abuse the hospitality. No doubt there will be statistics and quotes from National Geographic mags and the tree huggers journal.Naedootthitumshieheidswulhuvsumthintaesayproblykeech cheers fil

 

[Harry 047]

i mentioned this on another thread. maybe it would be a better idea to introduce a small number on one of scotland bigger outlying islands. There'd be no problems for farmers, less danger of attacks on people and it would be very easily controlled. Bushcrafters, trackers and the like could visit the island whenever they liked. Apparently Rhum is heavily overpopulated by deer at the moment...

I think it is a misconception that wolve's have ever attacked a human , as they are very shy predators.
bring them back soon.
Harry

 

[Tengu]

Which is why people in rural India count their children every night...

I dont think its possible because there isnt the will for it.

(and its a shame deer cant be talked to death; we would soon suffer a shortage)

 

[jerv]

Which is why people in rural India count their children every night..

I dont think its possible because there isnt the will for it.

(and its a shame deer cant be talked to death; we would soon suffer a shortage)
Yesterday 21:44

From this forum the will exists. There may not be any political will at the moment but that may change. There wasn't much opinion about the white tailed eagle or the beaver but it happened anyway. Every so often things happen because they are a good thing to do.
do rural indians count their children because of wolves or....tigers, leopards, bears, stray dogs, pythons, cobras, kidnappers, cars or the host of other dangers that exist for the rural indian.
Finding hard evidence for non rabid wolf attack that is not based on the fears and prejudices of poorly educated rural peoples is very difficult. I think there was a fatal attack recently in Canada. It's amusing that people worry about the possibility of wolf attack when we choose to live with an animal that is responsible for a great many fatal attacks, dogs.

 

[jerv]

http://www.treesforlife.org.uk/forest/ecological/predation.html#widerimpacts

towards the bottom of the page

thought this might introduce the wolfie friends. The idea about reintroducing a less controversial preadator first is very interesting.

 

[wanderinstar]

There was something on the radio this week about introducing them to the Highlands. But ramblers and hill walkers were "a bit worried". I am not surprised.
Imagine waking up in your hammock or tent to find a pack of wolves in your camp. ( Spare underwear DEFINITLY reqd)

 

[Carcajou Garou]

We have literally thousands of wolves in Kanata, and i can't even think of become scared of going out and being attacked (1 credible wolf/human kill in over a hundred years, even then it was in a wolf pen) by wolves. Much more likely attacked by feral dogs than anything else, though bears are getting to be a problem of late.
Healthy wolf pop, healthy game pop.

 

[woodstock]

There was something on the radio this week about introducing them to the Highlands. But ramblers and hill walkers were "a bit worried". I am not surprised.
Imagine waking up in your hammock or tent to find a pack of wolves in your camp. ( Spare underwear DEFINITLY reqd)

There has been a breeding program going on in Scotland for years involving wolves although they are bred in captivity with the idea that they will at some point be released saying that in the 90s some wolves escaped and I'm sure not all were recaptured, there was also the idea of introducing wild boar and bears into the highlands