Wild camping and metal detecting.

[Toddy]

Depends on it's context
Look at the skulls found in London with the Crossrail works….washed out of a Roman cemetery over a thousand years ago, washed down the Walbrooke, but below the Bedlam ones….and only context said that so there was greater attention paid to details. Amazing stuff coming up, and astonishing amount of information about the layers of history on the city.
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/roman-skulls-discovered-at-liverpool-street

If you read that article though, and find the whole thing fascinating, and all that history being revealed with careful investigation, excavation, reporting and recovery; yet all of it 'could' have been trashed, and the only bit 'worth' anything was a gold coin turned into a pendant.

Aye, makes you think, doesn't it ? How much more is out there ? and how much more information could we glean in the future as our techniques and research improves ? That's why archaeologist do not ever excavate an entire site. We leave for the future, and we don't disguise what we have excavated and pretend that it's pristine.
Once excavated the context is gone. The layers are destroyed, disturbed…..that's why we record with as many ways as we can. So that the details at least are there in the report for the future, not just the present interpretation.

M

 

[mick91]

How come in the north we consider useful pieces of wood and nuts and bolts raked out of skips treasure? Do you mean I haven't actually been finding treasure all this time?! *removes pirate hat and bottom lip wobbles*

It's clear the little turtle that lives in my head is firmly in command of the helm tonight guys I must apologise

 

[dewi]

Was that the same one that halted the tube station development to allow the archaeologists in?

Whoever made the decision that archeology was more important than capitalist budgets deserves a pint! A decision based on culture rather than profit for once... even if it was a limited time frame that was allowed.

Same thing happened at L1... time given to the archaeologists and they found some amazing stuff about the creation of Liverpool as the city it is today.

 

[dewi]

How come in the north we consider useful pieces of wood and nuts and bolts raked out of skips treasure? Do you mean I haven't actually been finding treasure all this time?! *removes pirate hat and bottom lip wobbles*

One man's treasure is another man's rubbish!

And yes, I reversed it on purpose.

 

[mick91]

One man's treasure is another man's rubbish!

And yes, I reversed it on purpose.

Ah yes, but when someone wants an unusual size bolt, 2 mismatched wardrobe handles or some fencing wire, I'd feel pretty silly if all I had to offer was a knackered old watch

 

[Toddy]

Oh skip diving is a national sport.

Biker did a brilliant drawing of Bushcraft Betty doing it
I need to see if I can find it.

M

 

[mick91]

Oh skip diving is a national sport.

Biker did a brilliant drawing of Bushcraft Betty doing it
I need to see if I can find it.

M

Steph walks away when I do it my daintly little size 14s sticking out of a skip trying to dislodge planks of wood. Never happier!

 

[dewi]

Ah yes, but when someone wants an unusual size bolt, 2 mismatched wardrobe handles or some fencing wire, I'd feel pretty silly if all I had to offer was a knackered old watch

There you go again, using that text-speak that the non-English speakers won't understand... Mick really! What are we going to do with you?

I personally think skip diving is a sort of urban bushcraft, in the same way as people who scavenge food from supermarket bins... it is making the most of the environment you're in and making use of all available resources.

And to a watch collector, there is no such thing as a knackered old watch... the watch collectors used to laugh at the Casio until it became old enough to be a 'classic'

 

[Goatboy]

You've just repeated what I said... essentially it is down to intent. If your intent is that you know the owner can be traced, you're a thief. But that is in relation to the 1960's Theft Act, not the Treasure Act. The Treasure Act specifies the length of time before something is considered treasure as 300 years, unless it has 10% gold content. So if the watch was indeed an 18th century piece, the 300 year rule would no longer apply, but the gold content would... which is why I said a 19th century pocket watch. With a 19th century pocket watch you can not automatically assume it is gold, it is not 300 years old and given that it is from the 19th century, depending on the circumstances of the 'find', the Theft Act would not apply necessarily.

Should the finder of the singular bronze Roman helmet have returned said item to its presumed origin in Italy? Well, no, because it was not covered by the Treasure Act, but lucky person to have found it after the Treasure Act came into being because before that we were subject to the Treasure Trove law. Said law, coming from (ironically) the Romans presumed that every 'find' was to be shared between the land owner and the finder... but the problem arises when Royalty casts the net of ownership on all lands, which means half belongs to the finder and the other half to the crown. That is if the finder lives long enough to claim any reward for the find.

My point is that it is not as simple as finders keepers, but at the same time it is not "Report All Finds"... the law is more complex that a simple right or wrong when it comes to treasure hunting. I still lean towards M's point of view though, she makes a very valid point about archeology and finds remaining in place for the wider context to be discovered. Would that apply to the Roman helmet? We already know the Romans were there and they wore helmets... so significant 'find' or trophy of the past?

What happens if I lost my 300 year old antique gold watch only a week ago?

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[dewi]

What happens if I lost my 300 year old antique gold watch only a week ago?

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

Finders keepers, losers weepers

That is a puzzler... if you reported it, then when the finder is obliged to contact the coroner (because its 300 years old and gold) then the coroner is obliged to contact the police to see if it is a missing item. If he fails in his job, which no self-respecting coroner would do as they are in no way shape or form overworked and so busy elsewhere that they could possibly overlook it, then unfortunately you would have lost said watch.

Thankfully GB I know you're the responsible sort who would insure said item and although the loss would be a cultural loss to the generations that follow yours, you would have the funds to buy a PS4, an Xbox One and a plasma screen telly... so it's sherbets all round!

 

[mick91]

What happens if I lost my 300 year old antique gold watch only a week ago?

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

Then someone needing a coaching bolt is going to be very dissapointed!

 

[dewi]

Then someone needing a coaching bolt is going to be very dissapointed!

lol .

 

[mrcharly]

Oh skip diving is a national sport.

Beware . . . .

I know someone who ended up with a criminal record because of skip diving. They spotted furniture being turfed out of a shop - asked the shop owner if they could have the furniture (they were penniless students). He said sure, they hoiked stuff out of the skip.

Someone saw this and reported them - it seems once in the skip, the skip contents belong to the skip company - so the shop owner couldn't grant permission.

It went to magistrate's court, they were found guilty of (I think it was theft) and given suspended sentences. Sounds pretty minor but for some jobs this kind of thing has to be declared, even spent convictions.

So be careful.

 

[dewi]

Beware . . . .

I know someone who ended up with a criminal record because of skip diving. They spotted furniture being turfed out of a shop - asked the shop owner if they could have the furniture (they were penniless students). He said sure, they hoiked stuff out of the skip.

Someone saw this and reported them - it seems once in the skip, the skip contents belong to the skip company - so the shop owner couldn't grant permission.

It went to magistrate's court, they were found guilty of (I think it was theft) and given suspended sentences. Sounds pretty minor but for some jobs this kind of thing has to be declared, even spent convictions.

So be careful.

In what town did this happen in and roughly how long ago did it happen?

I only ask because what you've said isn't true, you hire the skip and have use of it until the skip company collects the skip... the skip company do not own what is in the skip at all. I've dealt with 26 council authorities over skips, so if your friend went to court and received suspended sentences, that will have effected their lives greatly, and it should be corrected.

Different if the skip is at the refuse tip and you drive up in your car, throw an old bike in there... then it becomes council property... but a private skip? Nope.

 

[boatman]

Quoting the Treasure Act is an irrelevance. For a start, everything found belongs to the landowner and it is for them to decide on its ownership except where the Treasure Act applies when there is an additional process required. Non "treasure" is not a free for all.

That helmet is an interesting case. Subsequent excavation showed the existence of a settlement and much useful information was revealed by archaeology. The helmet was not analysed properly before restoration so its value for knowledge approaches zero apart from the fact of its existence. Amusingly this means that the buyer for that stupendous sum cannot ever know how much of the Roman helmet they have actually got.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosby_Garrett_Helmet

 

[boatman]

Oh yes, ring pulls have been seeded into some sites where detectorists are forbidden or to be discouraged. So if someone found a lot of them..............

 

[dewi]

Quoting the Treasure Act is an irrelevance. For a start, everything found belongs to the landowner and it is for them to decide on its ownership except where the Treasure Act applies when there is an additional process required. Non "treasure" is not a free for all.

That isn't entirely true, and quoting the Treasure Act in the manner I did was entirely relevant... so, erm, you're wrong.

That helmet is an interesting case. Subsequent excavation showed the existence of a settlement and much useful information was revealed by archaeology. The helmet was not analysed properly before restoration so its value for knowledge approaches zero apart from the fact of its existence. Amusingly this means that the buyer for that stupendous sum cannot ever know how much of the Roman helmet they have actually got.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosby_Garrett_Helmet

Is there a point to this paragraph? Genuinely... what is your point?

 

[dewi]

Oh yes, ring pulls have been seeded into some sites where detectorists are forbidden or to be discouraged. So if someone found a lot of them..............

Well done, I'm sure you're very proud of wasting someone else's leisure time for your own amusement.

 

[boatman]

I haven't seeded any ring pulls but wouldn't feel guilty if I had. What a strange comment dewi.

 

[dewi]

I haven't seeded any ring pulls but wouldn't feel guilty if I had. What a strange comment dewi.

The way you phrased appeared that you had, but since you wouldn't feel guilty if you had, the comment stands.