Why guns should not be carried in the wilderness!!

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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
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Florida
I think you missed the point of him having a sidearm. In some places they are needed to get you out of trouble as opposed to being used for hunting or getting food. So they are often only used when someone is in trouble, like stepping on a big rattler that is longer than you are. That would have been a moment of danger for those involved, so it's no surprise that it ended like it did. Same thing happens a lot in Africa when you go on safari; the guides dont walk round with rifles but you can be sure one would appear pretty quickly if it was needed, when a customer's life was in danger. Having a gun does not always mean someone is actively out hunting; a point that may be lost on some. So in many of the wilder places on this planet having a firearm is not about getting dinner, it is often about having something that can stop you becoming a predator's dinner...

I think the people in the story had a serious brown trouser moment when 6 feet of hissing rattle snake appeared in front of them & given what I said above, the result is not unexpected. That is just the way it is in some places.

I think most people are assuming he was hunting because the article states they were at their hunting lodge. However you're right, they weren't actively hunting at the time. It says they were working the food plot. Food plots at a hunting lease are not there for human consumption but are there for the off season benefit of the wildlife and as a means of predicting the in season game trails.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
I think the guy saw the snake, his pants got the 'stain of shame' and he shot it.

Its difficult for many Brits to understand American gun culture, its ingrained in their society so who are we to criticise? One of the stove collectors used to camp a lot in Bear country and he and his wife carried powerful handguns and rifles and for them the weapons were as much a part of their camping kit as a tarp would be for many here.

I'd be happier if I knew he had eaten/shared the snake, not such a waste then.

+1. However although the article doesn't say he ate the snake, likewise it doesn't say that he didn't. We'll never know. Even if he left it, the scavengers and even the bacteria that consume flesh we think of as rotting, they are part of the food chain too.
 
Especially with catfish. Realisticly there is no other practical way to clean them. At least not in a private setting.

You cant kill it first? Really?

There might be something more practical......


More interested in "less cruel" not more practical

Would you think twice about stepping on a small land bug on the floor?

Crushing to death quickly and efficiently is NOT the same as nailing to a board and skinning whilst alive.

All that aside I'll repeat something I said in another thread. "I wish it were mandatory for everyone who eats meat or wears leather to have to prepare that meat or leather themselves at least once beggining with slaughtering the animal." It's one thing to buy the product and I'm all for that but doing it themselves just once would give them a truer sense of where the product comes from and not just a vaque concept that it's only a commodity on the store shelf.

I have done, sometimes do.

I'd like to think that the compassion and respect that I have for the wildlife around me means that I do it quickly, efficiently and with respect for the animal. I have no time for those that dont.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
You cant kill it first? Really?




More interested in "less cruel" not more practical



Crushing to death quickly and efficiently is NOT the same as nailing to a board and skinning whilst alive.



I have done, sometimes do.

I'd like to think that the compassion and respect that I have for the wildlife around me means that I do it quickly, efficiently and with respect for the animal. I have no time for those that dont.
If I remember right your commercial trout farms electrocute their fish first. When I say practical, I mean I don't know a practical way to carry an electrocution devise deep in the woods. And know I really don't know another way (or at least not a less cruel way) to kill a catfish. From start to cutting it's head off is under a minute. Not the best but probably better than bludgeoning. As far as crushing the bug that was more in comparison to the shellfish. Yeah I know many here have and do kill their own meat. I just believe it is something everyone should do. Many don't have a respect of where our food and other animal products come from and I think it would help. I know it's a pipe dream though. I've also posted in another thread regarding meat, "What's more moral/immoral? A hunter stalking game, or a farmer killing domestic animals that trust him?" And yes I've farmed too.
 
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sasquatch

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jun 15, 2008
2,812
0
47
Northampton
All I can say as the ex-pat Canadian is I'm not anti hunter, I'm just anti idiot hunter. I know families that fill their freezer responsibly and respectfully and as humanely as possible in the process. I don't even mind foxes getting dropped in other threads. But I can't say I agree with shooting anything trying to get away that has no real value as far as food goes. We do have rattlers in Canada, and if I saw one moving away from me I would have no desire to shoot it, I'd feel lucky for the encounter. Myself and the snake share the same interest, being outdoors...

I can't help it if women's shoes really bring out the colour of my eyes either. It's alright though cause I'm a lumber jack and I'm ok fella!
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
All I can say as the ex-pat Canadian is I'm not anti hunter, I'm just anti idiot hunter. I know families that fill their freezer responsibly and respectfully and as humanely as possible in the process. I don't even mind foxes getting dropped in other threads. But I can't say I agree with shooting anything trying to get away that has no real value as far as food goes. We do have rattlers in Canada, and if I saw one moving away from me I would have no desire to shoot it, I'd feel lucky for the encounter. Myself and the snake share the same interest, being outdoors...

I can't help it if women's shoes really bring out the colour of my eyes either. It's alright though cause I'm a lumber jack and I'm ok fella!

I'm anti-rattler. And I cain't help it if I like cowboy boots cause the pointy toes make it easy to kick up cow patties. As far as the "women's shoes" thing I guess we're even cause my girlfriends wore cowboy boots too. Now that that's out of the way on to serious comment. I also share the same interest with the snake: We're both territorial. That's just our nature. He and I cain't share the same hunting area. One of us has to go. That's part of natural selection. Someday he may win. But not on the day of the article.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Not my trout farms. The only trout I've ever eaten I've been there when it's been caught either by me or by the people I'm with. (I don't eat a great deal of fish though)

Cruelty is cruelty. Doesn't matter how you wrap it up.

So how did you dispatch the fish?
 
I'm sure a good many of you folk who are so upset about the snake go fishing, a "sport" were you usually try to get a creature to bite on a sharp hook attached to a line so you can yank it from its environment, of course fish are different right?
 
I'm sure a good many of you folk who are so upset about the snake go fishing, a "sport" were you usually try to get a creature to bite on a sharp hook attached to a line so you can yank it from its environment, of course fish are different right?

I've made no comment on the shooting of the snake. If thats whats done in America when they are clearing areas of snakes then so be it. My comment was purely on the cruelty of nailing it to a board and skinning it whilst its still alive. I cant see that as being defensible tbh.
 

veryWildbill

Nomad
Aug 15, 2010
325
0
west sussex
I see no problem with the shooting of the snake, it is a pest species where it was shot. It may have been trying to get away, but how far would it go and how long before it came back.

I do exactly the same with pests and vermin here, the rabbits on a freinds farm dont get a reprive because they are hopping away from me. Neither do the rats in my chicken run. I dont see the snake as any different, just a lot more dangerouse for my kids and dog to be playing around.
 

mayobushcraft

Full Member
Mar 22, 2007
260
1
61
Yeovil somerset
I have been lurking here watching how this tread has progressed. I grew up in Florida and have come acrossed many snakes while out and about. Both in the wilds and in residental areas. If I came across a poisonose snake near where kids would be I would kill it. My kids live in a area in the Ocala National Forest and I found a three foot rattler ten feet from the back door I moved it to the woods and off the property and have tought them to be aware that there are things that can hurt them. Unlike this country where there is little wildlife that can kill you, how can you judge a people where it happens quite often. In the wilds it is not the case of we or on there land so we are trespassing, More like the land belongs to all creatures including humans. We are part of the earth as are all things. Evolution has given us the ability to manage the earth. Some exploite it that is true. The person who killed the snake did what he felt was nessesary. Would I have done the same I dont know how can we know with so little information given in the article.
We are a bushcraft comunity and this is not about bushcraft.
 

sasquatch

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jun 15, 2008
2,812
0
47
Northampton
So let me get this straight you guys never shoot anything ie rabbits, hares, pheasants, pigeons, etc that are trying to get away from you? You only shoot the ones that are threatening your life? This folk is "Species prejudice"

I don't shoot anything full stop anymore. There's absolutely no need to in my case. As I said before I'm fine with people doing it for a good cause like eating, but I personally wouldn't even consider shooting a snake going in the opposite direction. If we shot at everything that could be considered a threat there wouldn't be many animals left or people for that matter.

There's a stone wall not too far from me, at the right time of year you can see up to a dozen Adders basking in the sun if you're lucky. The last thing that would cross my mind would be harming them. That's just my opinion though and we're all entitled to our own;)
 

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