Waterproofs

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ateallthepies

Native
Aug 11, 2011
1,558
0
hertfordshire
Hey all, I'm in the market for some decent waterproofs.

I just completed the Ridgeway trail and had a rough time in the wet weather. Now I'm a heavy sweater and one day while hiking it tipped down. I wore some old Regatta trousers and a good Poncho, both the usual pvc coated stuff and non breathable.

I was was just as wet as if I had worn no rain gear due to sweat so I'm needing some good quality Goretex or similar gear to reduce this......no fun hiking wet!

Any good reports?
 
Apr 8, 2009
1,165
144
Ashdown Forest
Take a look on ebay at the MTP waterproofs - they are goretex (the heavyweight version, with chest pockets, and foldaway hood), or gore paklite (the lightweight version with no hood and fleece lined collar).

Availiable at amazingly low prices - I've been incredibly impressed by my lightweight set.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
If you're up for asking one of the Maker's like Ian (Bilmo_p5) then I have red and blue Goretex that I'm going to put into a sales thread. It's genuine stuff too, it came from a jacket manufacturer's factory clear out.

Failing that, speak to Kev at Endicott's. He sells British Army goretex jackets and trousers and an awful lot of folks swear by them :approve: Very reasonably priced too.

I had some made for my husband by Slioch up in Wester Ross since he wanted a longer, almost coat length jacket, and though they are truly excellent, they were not cheap.

M
 

cranmere

Settler
Mar 7, 2014
992
2
Somerset, England
I'm a huge fan of Paramo. It's soft, doesn't crackle, breathes far better than any of the coated or membrane systems and I've never been wet in it, even on Dartmoor with sideways rain in a howling gale. It's used by some of the mountain rescue teams which I reckon is a darned good recommendation.
 

ateallthepies

Native
Aug 11, 2011
1,558
0
hertfordshire
Thanks for the suggestions, will look into them.

Breathability is I think priority one even at the expense of letting a bit of rain in. I wear modern wicking layers and when walking don't often need more than a thin long sleeve top and I still have rivers running down my back which wicks into my trousers and underwear and can cause chafing.
 

techworm

Forager
Aug 18, 2006
150
0
62
lancashire
paramo cascade trousers, the ones with side zips.
paramo cascade jacket.
i run hot too so its important to layer under the jacket properly, i find a high wicking top is sufficient for me.
 

Jaeger

Full Member
Dec 3, 2014
670
24
United Kingdom
Aye Up Ateallthepies,

Just seen your post and drafted out a script on my extensive experience re your issue with waterproofs (I’ve used the lot – professionally and own time-wise) but held it back as it might be too long for here (I’m new to the forum). So here is something for you to look at instead – Austrian military issue G3 Goretex jacket. Very effective garment if used correctly! I bought mine for £40, ex surplus in the UK (took a bit of tracking down due to my size requirement!) but you can buy them brand new from Steinadlerversand (Austria) for 150 Euros. They do steingrau (a plain mid/dark olive) and black. I personally go for the plain olive as opposed to camo as it works well for both bushcraft type activity and civvy trekking – it is slightly less boxy military than the MTP equivalent. That site incidentally is good for a look at for other bushcraft type C&E. There are people at the Co who speak good English but if you need a go-between let me know. Hope that this is of use to you.
 

rg598

Native
I'm afraid that for the conditions you described there is no material that will keep you dry regardless of price or quality. When it is actively raining outside of the shell no material that is waterproof enough to keep the water from getting in is also going to be breathable in any meaningful way. GoreTex is good. eVent and NoeShell are better in terms of hard shell breathability. However, none of them will keep you dry from both sweat and rain at the same time.

I wear an Arcteryx Beta GoreTex shell. It is completely waterproof, but if you are moving while it is raining, you will get condensation on the inside. That being said, while it may seem that you are just as wet from sweat as from the rain, I find that it's actually a much better option.
 

Bluffer

Nomad
Apr 12, 2013
464
0
North Yorkshire
Lightweight Paramo works for me, wear it all day and night and just let the weather do what it wants.

Keeps the rain out, breathability/condensation isn't a concern and they do a range of natural colours (mainly green and black).

You could also try the Bergans Morgedal smock, it uses encapsulated cotton. I use that around fires or sometimes paddling.
 

caorach

Forager
Nov 26, 2014
156
0
UK
Like everyone else I've been round the loop and there simply isn't a perfect solution. If you walk or do exercise on a warm day in just a cotton t-shirt it will get damp and that, quite simply, is the problem as there is no "magic bullet" solution.

My experience is that all "waterproof" solutions will retain more moisture than a non-waterproof solution and, what I think is a bigger factor, they will retain it for longer no matter what marketing claims are made. This means they can all become a little uncomfortable.

I've tried a lot of "solutions" and the one that works best for me is the surplus windproof smock with, when required, a gore-tex liner and in my case this takes the form of a surplus jacket.

The windproof smock isn't totally waterproof but when you wash some waterproofing for cotton into it then it becomes pretty shower proof, I've been out for several hours in heavy rain in mine with no leaks. As the smock is just cotton/poly it is also very breathable but, as I've said, this does not mean it will not get a little damp if you walk hard. However, when the rain stops I find that I dry out much faster on the inside in my smock than I would if wearing a totally waterproof layer. The smock itself dries very quickly. Now there are people on ebay asking a fortune for windproof smocks, for some reason, but if you bid carefully you can get new ones for £10 - £20. The new MTP smocks are very like commercial jackets with handwarmer pockets, mesh lining, pit zips and so on and I think this is a step backwards. The older DPM smocks are of a rather more simple construction and I think this is better for walking/fishing/bushcraft type situations as, apart from anything else, they dry a little faster than the more complex MTP ones.

When the weather is very bad I then add the gore-tex layer UNDER the smock. That way you retain all your pockets etc. but are now totally waterproof. Now in this situation you are back to square one in the sense that you are going to get damp on the inside but my experience is that I don't actually need to wear the gore-tex layer very often and it is rare that I need to wear it for long periods of time. When you think about it most people are not out in conditions where there is solid rain for very long periods of time. The smock dries very quickly and so almost as soon as the rain is over the gore-tex layer is off leaving just the smock and this promotes drying of any moisture gathered. The gore-tex layer is very light and easily rolls up and lives on top of my rucksack. I have 2 gore-tex layers one German surplus which cost me £13 and one British DPM layer which cost me about £25.

I'm out a lot, and have a lot of very expensive jackets, but this system is now the one I use through choice. The down sides are that you have to remove the smock to put the gore-tex layer on so that takes a few minutes and can be a bit of a chore in driving rain but I've found that using your brain (picking a lull in the rain, sheltering behind a rock etc.) easily solves this problem. Also most of the surplus stuff is only available in a range of cammo colours but in my situation I'm out 100+ days a year and probably see only a handful of other people and quite frankly I'm not much concerned about their opinion and I'm warm and dry.

I'm not claiming that this is a perfect solution, as I don't think such a thing exists, but it works very well for me and because it is relatively inexpensive I would suggest it is worth giving it a try. If you hate it then you can put the jackets back on ebay and get your money back.

Trousers, however, are another matter and I've not found anything to beat the Harkilia Pro Hunters. Until I discovered Harkilia I destroyed trousers at a rate of a pair a fortnight. The Harkilia have all the disadvantages of a fully waterproof layer in that they leave you damp and hold the moisture and so are not as flexible or comfortable as the smock/gore-tex solution in jackets but so far it's the best solution I've found.
 

oldtimer

Full Member
Sep 27, 2005
3,182
1,800
82
Oxfordshire and Pyrenees-Orientales, France
Like many of the posts above, I don't thing the holy grail of waterproof without condensation has been found and I've been seaching for over sixty years. I've tried oilskins, plastic and all manner of coated fabrics including several versions of goretex and similar. I've been on Paramo for the last five years and its the best I have used so far if kept clean and reproofed regularly. However, the overtrouser problem remains. I keep a cheap pair in the pocket of my Paramo but only wear them if really necessary. I hate walking in them and prefer to get wet legs if I'm wearing quick dry fabric trousers, but this is not always the wisest course of action if hypothermia is on the cards. I don't think I could justify the expense or weight of Paramo trousers. But I really hate putting on yesterday's wet trousers on at the start of a new day on the trail.

Thank you for the post though, as I for one will be following up some of the helpful trouser suggestions already made and I expect there will be more useful comments to come on this familiar but unsolved problem.
 

caorach

Forager
Nov 26, 2014
156
0
UK
I've been on Paramo for the last five years and its the best I have used so far if kept clean and reproofed regularly. However, the overtrouser problem remains.

I tried Paramo trousers, they didn't even last the fortnight that most other trousers last for me. The trouser problem is a tricky one.
 

Quixoticgeek

Full Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,483
23
Europe
I have recently switched to Paramo after years of unsatisfactory Membrane jackets. Sam vimes theory won out.

Trousers wise, most water proofs aren't going stand up to bushwacking through brambles. My general approach is to wear water resistant trousers (currently Craghopper Kiwi Stretch Pro), they keep the worst off, and the point they give in rain wise, you would be soaked from sweat anyway. Not perfect solution, but it works for me.

J
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
17
Scotland
I have recently switched to Paramo after years of unsatisfactory Membrane jackets. Sam vimes theory won out.

Trousers wise, most water proofs aren't going stand up to bushwacking through brambles. My general approach is to wear water resistant trousers (currently Craghopper Kiwi Stretch Pro), they keep the worst off, and the point they give in rain wise, you would be soaked from sweat anyway. Not perfect solution, but it works for me.

J

Good Sir Terry thinking there :)
After years of not liking membranes too I too am a Paramo fan.
I found for bramble bashing though few things beat a set of waxed cotton chaps. Thorn proof and allow ones bits to breathe :thumbup:

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
For low activity levels it's pretty easy to stay dry, i've got some 1 piece motorbike waterproofs that have kept me dry when fishing for a few years now, throw in some active work though and i sweat buckets in em.

For hiking the balance is even tougher because you need to balance the weight of something you are only going to wear what 10% of the time even in the UK.
So it's tough accepting that we are going to carry around say 1kg of wet weather kit "just in case"

I try and think more about the temperature than the rain these days.

If it's going to be 10c+ then i tend not to bother with waterproofs at all, i'll instead buy clothing that dries very quickly.
If it's closer to 10c than + then i'll throw in a windproof jacket as well, as i find this helps alleviate a lot of body temperature that's usually taken by the wind, i tend to only bother throwing it on when i'm about to stop though.


Much below 10c and i'll start bringing out the waterproofs.
Been using a Montane Further Faster NeoShell jacket for about 1 year now and i really rate it.
http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/shell/further-faster-neo-jacket

You still get wet after 6 hours+ of heavy rain, be that from sweat or rain but it's better than the many many other jackets i've tried so far, only real downside for me is it's heavy at 455g.

Had one of these arrive the other day
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/wpb_jacket.shtml

I went for the full length one which comes down to my knees and pit zips, comes in at 220g and packs down really small.
No experience with it yet though unfortunately, have a 6 day trip in the Lake district coming up soon though so if you're interested i'll report back.
 

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