Want a woodburner

[Walks with dogs]

I'm not sure where to post this so apologies if it should be in a subforum.

I would like to install a woodburner in my living room but don't have a traditional fireplace and surround, just a gas fire in a "fake" mantlepiece.

What would I have to do to safely install a woodburner?

 

[Shewie]

You would have to install some kind of flue somewhere to carry out the smoke.

I think it also depends on what age house you have too, I`m sure there are some kind of H&S regulations these days.

They`ll be others who can offer you better advice, just my twopenneth.

 

[EdS]

if your gas fire has a flue i would be possible.

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Contemporary-designer-stoves.html

First off you need to check that you are not in a smoke control zone - other wise your choise of stove is very limited.

 

[ecobandit]

may I suggest you look at the "HETAS"website as a first point of call then take it from there just google hetas.

 

[Silverback]

You can have a log burner installed just about anywhere these days with the leaps forward in the developement of the flu liners - my boss has two installed in a mid terrace ex council property built in the mid 70's and had two chimneys installed in the property where there had previously been none. An existing chimney will certainly keep the cost down so if your gas fire is vented out through an existing chimney you are half way there. Your log burner can free stand on a hearth without a surround but requires a legal tolerance if contained within one. A couple of things to bear in mind are to check your area for smoke free zone restrictions (still not a total nono but you will need to look at burners with a 're-burn' function that recycle and burn off the secondary gases) and assess your draughts. If you are double glazed to the hilt with concrete floors you may not be generating the necessary draft to operate a log burner. My dad was a coal merchant for 40 years and in later years people would phone to complain that the coal was not burning nearly as well as it used to and my dad's first question would be to ask if they had recently installed double glazing - in nearly all instances this was the route cause.

 

[spiritofold]

I've got a log burner to install at our next place, a "morso squirrel". Im hoping there will be a flue liner in place already, cant tell cos the hearth has been bricked up....

 

[Kerne]

Very interested in this thread since I am looking to install a woodburning stove in my workshop (formerly the garage). I generate a lot of scrap wood (DT teacher) and am interested in something that will heat my workshop as well as double up to cook a few things - especially when I cease to be able to pay my gas bills. Does anyone have experience of doing this? Will I need to connect a flue through the workshop roof? Do I need planning permission? etc?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[SiWhite]

Kerne,

Have a look at the various 'calor gas bottle turned into a woodburning stove' threads.

Mine's just been finished a few weeks ago (workshop calor bottle stove) and the total cost is about £23 - £15 for some second hand flue, £7.50 for two tins of paint and £0 for and old gas bottle found in a hedge! The stove is fantastic - I only need to burn it for about half an hour to take the workshop from chilly to toasty.

The flue exits through the wall for ease of waterproofing. I've no particular regard for planning permission for this sort of thing - I'm 99.9% certain it won't be needed.

I could take some piccys if you need......

 

[Mike Ameling]

You need a properly designed/made chimney to vent the smoke/gasses. You need proper clearances for that chimney as well as your wood stove. And you need an air supply coming into your home to replace all the air now heading up the chimney.

And then there are all the various local ordinances that might apply.

But, and this is a very important thing, check your house/home owners INSURANCE policy!!!!!! Many companies will not insure a home with a wood burner in it!!!!!! And if they do, they will require lots and lots of proper, certified, inspected installation!!!!

Very few people think about what the consequences of a wood stove will be on their insurance policy until it is too late. Then they either have to rip it back out, or have a huge increase in premiums - and that's if their policy just doesn't get cancelled.

I've heated with wood since the early 80's. I've never been able to get insurance (old house and chimney built back in the 1870's). So I just live with it. About 10 years ago, the club I belong to just about lost our insurance on our rented property. The company was trying to clear out all policies where a wood burning stove was being used. We only squeaked by because we were partially "grandfathered" in, and we passed their "inspection". The whole insurance industry was doing this - because so many people had installed wood heating stoves without a clue about how to properly install them, and how to properly USE them!

I know one guy who cut a 6 inch hole through the wood wall of his kitchen and slipped a single-wall metal stove pipe through it, and caulked all the way around that pipe to seal it up with the wall. And he then connected his wood burning stove and started using it. He couldn't understand why the wood on the wall around the pipe was turning BLACK!!! At least he got real help before he burned the place down! (He also had his wood stove almost touching that wood wall - and his kitchen cabinets! And had mentioned that they did get a bit ... hot to the touch.)

So check your home-owners insurance policy before you go to far.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

p.s. I've installed and used wood stoves in many buildings over the years. And I've NEVER burnt one down - yet. But I also now the dangers and what steps are necessary - even though I don't have any ... certificate.

 

[mortalmerlin]

I guess it's been said but the gas flue will be much too small for a wood burner. You can get all the sections to build a flue yourself though.

You might get some more ideas from sites like haas + sohn.

Also if you want to buy a good stove and don't mind a trip they are much cheaper in Germany. Our stove was 2100 euro in Belgium and 486 in Germany but we had to collect it.

 

[spiritofold]

I think the flue's going to be my main problem...

 

[Silverback]

Too far away for you spiritofold but lots of good info (this is the company my boss and my father used for installation of both liners and stoves) http://www.jandastoves.co.uk/

 

[Bootstrap Bob]

I'm currently in the process of preparing my mantle piece and fire surround for fitment of a wood burner too and I can say that everything you have just read is true.

I have heard many reports as to what you can and can't do and in the end I decided to read the building regulations regarding solid fuel burners.

Yes, as with most things now building regulations need to be adhered to with the fitment which means you need to allow clearance around the appliance, minimum 100mm I recall and this must be a non combustable material. You need a stainless steel flue even if you currently have a chimney and this is the expensive bit
Our house was built in the 30s so has a 9 inch square chimney and we were incorrectly told that this would be sufficient if we had it pressure tested and swept but apparently not!

Wood burners are very efficient so the gases passing up the chimney are cooler than those of an inefficient open fire. (More heat going into the room with a burner). This means that the chimney internal walls can build up condensation and any particles passing up the chimney stick to them thereby creating a potential fire hazard if a stray ember were to blow up there. Result......chimney fire:yikes:

If you talk to any fireman, they will tell you that most chimney fires start because of this. Even with a stainless flue you still need to have it swept annually so this argument doesn't hold out either...........I asked

In terms of ventilation the rules are that you need a direct source of fresh air into a room if the burner is above 5KW and this doesn't include trickle vents in windows or poorly fitting doors, it needs to be a dedicated path from the outside.

I don't want to put anyone off doing this but I just thought I'd fill you in from our own experience and yes we're still going ahead with it but we are doing it properly.
Budgetting wise I would recommend you multiply the cost of the burner by 2-3 times for the installation depending on how long your flue needs to be and how much you think you can do yourself. An approved Hetas fitter will also give you an installation certificate which you will need if you ever want to sell your house.

 

[Walks with dogs]

Thanks all, it seems like a complicated old saga. But I've looked on the hetas site and found a company local to me so I will give them a shout and see what they say. Amazingly, the missus is all for it!!!

 

[Silverback]

You will never look back mate - toasty warm, positively miserly on fuel, can be kept in all night, no embers on the carpet (most of the time ) and you can boil a zebra kettle on the top

 

[spiritofold]

Cheers for the info

 

[EdS]

for 2 or more storey buildings the chimney appature needs to be at least 1 nineth of the opening area of the fire place.

For 1 storey buildings it has to be at least 1 sixth. It needs to be larger to lower outlet as a shorter length does now draw as well - hence the tradtioinal use of long Toms on cottages/lodges.

to find out if you are in a smoke control zones (if your council has got around to entering the data) and for authorise fuels ie coke etc and exempt appliances - those that can be used in SCZ (due to reburn etc):

http://www.uksmokecontrolareas.co.uk/index.php

 

[Mike Ameling]

Again, I wish to urge you to CHECK WITH YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY before you go too far with this. Some companies have no problems with a wood stove in the house - especially if it is installed by a certified installation company/person. But some want nothing to do with them, and might just cancel your insurance.

I've seen it happen several times in the past couple years. And it's been one of the big reasons so many people have been going with those outside wood heaters. It is its own little stand-alone building (about the size of a small garden shed), and then you pipe either heated water or air from it into your house and into your normal furnace or heating system. The key point those insurance companies like is that the whole "fire" part is 20 feet or more away from the house. And all the "mess" of heating with wood is also outside. The other part people like is that they generally only stoke it up twice a day - morning and evening. Altho you do have to go OUTSIDE to feed it. But they burn/waste a lot of extra wood!

So PLEASE check with your homeowners insurance company before you go too far with this.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Silverback]

I have been with many different insurance company's over the years and the woodburner has never been an issue even when I claimed for a damaged carpet when Mrs. Silverback found out it didn't like red hot embers

 

[BorderReiver]

Possibly things are different in the U.S.A?