Vegetarians and vegans

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gunnix

New Member
Mar 5, 2006
434
2
Belgium
I've been vegetarian for maybe a year (I did feel good, was strong n everything), but now (since last year) I think the so called "paleolithic diet" is the one I'd like to follow. What this means to me is eating wild stuff, gathered plants, fruit, nuts, but also insects, meat, fish, etc. What I'd rather not eat is food from agriculture (note the difference between agriculture and horticulture made in anthropology) like factory meat, dairy and monocropped plants, also rather not too much grains or beans (as they're not so ideal as food for humans according to what I read and how I feel when eating them). This is what I think of as an ideal diet, but actually I don't follow that diet too much. I'd like to start fishing more and hunting rabbits, also growing plants semi wild (a bit like Fukuoka's "natural farming"), gathering plants more too, there's just not many places where I can get them here.

I think plants have feelings just as well. You can hurt them, kill them like you do with an animal. That's how life is, we all have to kill to live. I think it's all in the way of how we do it. I read some stuff about how primitive hunters would communicate with animals and their spirits, somehow getting permission to kill the animal. And after killing the animal thanking it's spirit that it sacrifised itself. Also talking to plants why you pick them, and asking permission. I think that's walking life gently. Take what you need and leave the rest so others get something too.


As for vegetarianism, I think there are many arguments that can be shown false. But I think mostly vegetarians give those short explanations because they're confrontated with someone who thinks it's stupid, rediculous, etc. And they just give a fast reply. Whatever most people probably have got good reasons, or they are just because they feel like it, which is a good reason too. Also I'd not say of myself that I'm vegetarian even if I'd not eat meat or fish, because I don't like to get such a label on me, there'd be more important things to me then that I don't eat meat or fish you know. I don't call me an anarchist either, or whatever, I'm just human like the rest.

Like that meat would be unhealthy: inuit lived almost completely on meat healthily, there was also an experiment in the early 1900's of two men who tried to only eat meat for one year and they were perfectly healthy because they ate all the fat and sucked/chewed the bones and so on. ( http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm ) Eating only meat is possible only if you eat the whole animal.
I think it's right though, that factory produced meat is generally unhealthy because of the chemicals and the poor conditions the animals live in. I actually heard that the emotions of the animals result in some chemicals in their meat, and when you eat meat from for example a depressed sick cow then you'll be influenced emotionally as well. Ofcourse it will probably not influence you terribly much on it's own, but every bit counts. And I think I can say that our society is quite depressed (look at all the suicides, etc).

Or the arguement that it takes more land to produce meat, but think of all the land that can't be used to raise crops on. Where animals can still get fat.
Though ofcourse it's terrible the way that for example the rainforest is destroyed to plant soy to feed the porks.

I think factory farming in general sucks. It's so insensitive and it's all about efficiency and nothing about pointfullnes, beauty or respect.

I had a lot of experience with anarchist vegans screaming "eeew that's disgusting!", "arghh is that meat you're eating?!", etc . And if I didn't know any other vegans (I also tried it for a while) I'd say I hate them. I definately understand people who say they do. Well I guess it's all about respect and me personally, I try not to judge others then myself. We all got our story and our reasons of why we do what we do.

Then something else, there was a post with news about the lower agricultural profits this year. I think this is also a nice article about it "global warming and global food supply":
http://anthropik.com/2006/08/global-warming-global-food-supply/

In short: 2004 was the globally best agricultural year in the last century but since then it's been going down a lot due to climate problems and oil/water/... getting more expensive. Probably next year will be even worse, and we should expect food prices to rise a lot in the next years... Mind you that it's globally, and we in western europe might not notice the difference as soon as others in the world.


By the way, my brother has been strictly vegetarian for more then a year and his farts smell a lot. If he has been to the toilet you'd really not want to go there in the rest of the day anymore... Ofcourse this doesn't count for all people who not eat meat or fish, it's just individually. Maybe it's right vegetarians smell less then meat n fish eaters, but I think it's bull**** ;)
 

sandsnakes

Full Member
May 22, 2006
976
12
66
London
Look up the 'Adam and Eve Diet' a guide to bio-typing. By Roderick Lane ND and Sarah Stacey.

Its out of print but there are a couple of online sites that will tell you if you are suited to a hunter-gatherer diet or a vegatarian one.

Veggie option is down to your physical type, some people do well and thrive, others get slow and fat. One common mistake is that vegans and veggies become 'starcharians' so they are swaping gross protien for bulk refined starch. If you are veggie or vegan you need to cut down the starch in take, as all of your foods will have a significant carbohydrate content, and add a lot more nuts and seeds as your basic meal. A museli needs to be about 50% crushed nuts and seeds. If you do that you will be fine. ;)

Sandsnakes

ps one of the best foods to carry is tomato concentrate, not ketchup. It will flavour things and is packed with high level nutrients. Dame good for the heart and 'male problems'.

:)

Sandsnakes
 

FeralSheryl

Nomad
Apr 29, 2005
334
0
60
Gloucestershire
Carniverous teeth I have but I'm vegetarian too. The simple answer is I'm more interested in what an animal thinks and experiences than what it tastes like. We're omniverous, capable of living perfectly well on other tasty food so for me, vegetarian it is!

The Bacon Devil does come to taunt me now and then I just go and buy the vege option and have a great big sandwich with mushrooms fried in butter and vege bacon. Yum!

Ideally I would like to establish a vegan diet but it will take me a little time to resist butter and cheese and cream I think. Slowly slowly :)
 

FeralSheryl

Nomad
Apr 29, 2005
334
0
60
Gloucestershire
Cap'n Badger said:
Wow.....this thread has come on since I last looked......Can't we just all get along?...lol .........won't someone think o' the children!...lmao.... :soapbox:
lol. Its one of those subjects folk do kinda get worked up about.
 

Willowbark

Tenderfoot
Sep 4, 2005
84
2
Stroud, Gloucestershire
I've been a vegie so long, it's tricky remembering how I got that way in the first place! Oh yeah, didn't need to eat meat and didn't like the way animals were treated in modern farms.
I guess now it's mostly habit. I belong to a community farm and know exactly how the animals are treated and it's pretty damn well, so can't raise that objection any more.
I am a leatherwork teacher and tanner (any other vegetarian tanners out there?)
I often work with teenagers, skinning deer and making leather from the hides. We also take the sinew for sewing and make tools from the bones. It's actually pretty useful being a vegie in this context as I almost always get someone squemish saying "I can't possibly do this, I am a vegetarian". It's handy to be able to reply "so am I".
Out of the deep respect I feel for the animals I am skinning (wild deer taken from population control culling) , I have started to eat a small piece of meat from them, but can't say I like it at all.
Basically, I have no moral objections to meat eating, as long as it is from decently reared animals that have been treated with respect. I can't stand the hypocracy of people who will not acknowledge where their meat comes from. I feel this to be the ultimate disrespect for the animal that died to nourish them.

I think really I will only feel comfortable eating meat if I have killed the animal myself and I'm only now on the edge of being in that space.

ps I did eat some of the fish we caught on the fishing trip, but only a little bit and with no great enjoyment, I guess I've a way to go yet. :eek:
 
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Nyayo

Forager
Jun 9, 2005
169
0
51
Gone feral...
I'm a veggie cos I choose to be (obviously a choice that is resented or feared by many for some reason). I don't think my reasons are any better or worse than those of a so-called 'Bunnyhugger' (lovely derogatory/judgemental term, there) And no, I don't really feel a need to defend my life style choices (although I'm a little surprised by some of the Murdock TV and tabloid-based opinions seen here...) And yes, you're absolutely correct, it's a new, urban trendy phenomenon; after all 400 million or so Hindus, Jains and Buddhists have only been doing it for the last three thousand years or so...

And with all that love in the air (especially in Basra and Kirkuk and Jaffa and Darfur and Harare) isn't 'Hate' a really cool word to bandy about, especially in this part of September?

N
 
W

Wolf-

Guest
I'm vegetarian, why should animals be killed for food when we have plenty of other stuff to eat? grains,fruit,vegetables,nuts and milk.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
36,908
2,779
S. Lanarkshire
Hi Wolf, welcome to BcUK; why not introduce yourself on the introductions forum.

A bit polemic as a first post ;) , I'm vegetarian too but the list is a real mix and there are as many opinions as people.

Cheers,
Toddy
 

dave k

Nomad
Jun 14, 2006
449
0
45
Blonay, Switzerland
I'm not a veggie. I'm a meatie.

But I do refuse to purchase mass-produced food from the supermarket's.. I've got a really good local butcher called `the real meat company` that specalize in low-impact, high-welfare meat. It's more expensive than regular (and organic) meat, but you can see and taste the difference. You can actually visit all the farms and processing plants where the meat is grown and butchered. Try to get tesco's to let you see where you 1.99 per kilo mince comes from - not a chance :)

btw, they also deliver.

And I also head out to farmers markets and pick up freezer stuff as well as local cheese and veggies.. I like supporting local producer's, and I hate the idea that when you buy local potatoes from the supermarker they have in fact probally travelled over 200 miles (even if you live 1 mile from the farm...)...


I can also understand people going veggie if dodgy meat is the only option.. I'm not always so understanding when having veggie's over to dinner though, as after I spend 4 hours cooking a nice veggie meal for them when I visit their house I never get steak in return!

:)
 

Tadpole

Full Member
Nov 12, 2005
2,842
20
57
Bristol
dave k said:
I'm not a veggie. I'm a meatie.

But I do refuse to purchase mass-produced food from the supermarket's.. I've got a really good local butcher called `the real meat company` that specalize in low-impact, high-welfare meat. It's more expensive than regular (and organic) meat, but you can see and taste the difference. You can actually visit all the farms and processing plants where the meat is grown and butchered. Try to get tesco's to let you see where you 1.99 per kilo mince comes from - not a chance :)

btw, they also deliver.

And I also head out to farmers markets and pick up freezer stuff as well as local cheese and veggies.. I like supporting local producer's, and I hate the idea that when you buy local potatoes from the supermarker they have in fact probally travelled over 200 miles (even if you live 1 mile from the farm...)...


I can also understand people going veggie if dodgy meat is the only option.. I'm not always so understanding when having veggie's over to dinner though, as after I spend 4 hours cooking a nice veggie meal for them when I visit their house I never get steak in return!

:)
I'm not surprised I’d not want to eat any vegetables that have been cooking for four hours :p
 

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