The Covid19 Thread

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santaman2000

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Jan 15, 2011
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We have seen news items here that it costs about $3000 to be tested for the virus in the US, if that is correct that is absolutely scandalous, and shows how lucky we are over here

Oh, and if they are willing to pay that , then they must be taking it seriously
I don’t know what the labs are “billing.” That said, what they bill is irrelevant. There are three scenarios depending on what insurance you have so let’s assume your number is correct.

Scenario 1:
-Doctor orders the test
-Lab bills I insurance company $3000
-insurance company sends doctor his payment and tells lab that testing is considered a part of the office visit and no separate payment will be made
-Lab has to eat the bill. Patient pays nothing

Scenario 2:
-Doctor orders the test
-Lab bills insurance company $3000.
-Insurance company checks what they consider a fair price and “allows” $300 and makes payment minus patient deductible.
-Patient pays deductible (amount dependent upon insurance policy but normally about $15 to $30)

Scenario 3:
-Patient decides he just wants the test and doesn’t bother what a doctor says (or doesn’t even go to a doctor but goes straight to a lab
-Lab does the test and bills him $3000
-He’s stuck paying the whole bill

Before christmas the minimum waiting time for an appointment at my local GP surgery was four weeks and that was pretty normal. Of course if you are really ill then twice a week you can sit all day in a crowded waiting room with everybody else coughing and spluttering.

I Usually wait a day or three to try to get over most ailments ts before I call for an appointment BUT I can usually get a same day appointment (or next day at worst case) for whatever ailment I might have (even just a stabbed toe) or wait go to a walk-in clinic and be seen in about 20 minutes (ironically it often takes longer at the Emergency Room at a hospital :( Often much longer)Still feel lucky Fad ode?
 

Tengu

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Jan 10, 2006
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Santaman, as ex millitary I assume you have their insurance(?) and so your medical experience isnt the typical US one?

(Sorry to be so snippy but I know what my best friend died of in the US).
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
5,232
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A UK expert was reported as saying they fear effects of panic more than the effects if this bug (paraphrased a bit).

Another shedload of experts say that the recent increase from 2 point something to 3% rate is not significant because it's likely to be due to either better testing or reporting. Also real rate is likely to be nearer 1% because most people affected are asymptomatic or with mild symptoms often confused with colds.

At work there was a spell of people getting nasty flu like symptoms end of last year. Some here reckon covid 19 has already been through this area. Likely not true but it was a nasty bug that kept coming back. People who were never ill before got wiped out for weeks, recovered then got a second dose.

I think with this bug there's two populations with different levels of risk. Those who are older and have underlying medical conditions. The second group are those without underlying medical conditions of concern send who aren't elderly. How you react to this situation probably and quite rightly differs depending on what group you're in.

My advice is to know what group you're in and act accordingly. Calmly and responsibly.

A 71 year old work colleague couldn't buy her weekly pack of toilet paper, yet a much younger women had a trolley completely full with toilet rolls. We're talking hundred of them. One household made the news having "accidentally " ordered over 1000 packs of toilet paper. Just how many packs would 14 days self isolation really need?
 

Janne

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Feb 10, 2016
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Santaman, as ex millitary I assume you have their insurance(?) and so your medical experience isnt the typical US one?

(Sorry to be so snippy but I know what my best friend died of in the US).

All Health (Medical and Dental) insurances work that way. Even the UK based ones.
The coverage varies, depending on which plan you sign up for.

As I wrote, their president is creating a law that will make the testing free for the uninsured.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Santaman, as ex millitary I assume you have their insurance(?) and so your medical experience isnt the typical US one?

(Sorry to be so snippy but I know what my best friend died of in the US).
No need to apologize, it’s a legitimate question. Almost all insurance here is paid or subsidized by the employer. My first major employer just happened to be the military, and my second and third were civilian companies (albeit they were county and then state civil service) but civilian employers (even Walmart and KFC, etc) are also required to offer insurance so yes, my experience is indeed typical. I switched from the military system to civilian providers long ago.

There are of course unemployed who have their insurance provided by the government (Medicaid. Same billing practices I described above) My daughter falls in this category (she’s also in the process of filing for a disability pension) and her care works the same as mine.

Likewise for the elderly (those over 65) who are covered by Medicare (a specific government medical program for the elderly)

The single biggest block to getting coverage is likely the same both here and there: a lack of understanding the system thoroughly enough to navigate it when faced with a misinformed official or clerk. The best advice in either case is to learn the system thoroughly and be persistent in requests and appeals.
 
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Tengu

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Ah, well my friend was not an employee of anyone, and he (to my mind foolishly) married someone who didnt have the money to support his known poor health.

(I told him to come back to GB, even offering to pay...one way...air fare, but he declined).

You are correct in that you need to know how to work the system. (As my mother did).
 
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C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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Not mainstream media. Some comments from people claiming to be in Italy are interesting. Not sure that other evidence backs up his assertion that Covid19 is properly airborne and not just droplets.

Full length interview here, but it is 1h34m
 

C_Claycomb

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....

A 71 year old work colleague couldn't buy her weekly pack of toilet paper, yet a much younger women had a trolley completely full with toilet rolls. We're talking hundred of them. One household made the news having "accidentally " ordered over 1000 packs of toilet paper. Just how many packs would 14 days self isolation really need?

A friend in Paris said they had 96 rolls, but with three small children that would last them no time. I mentioned this to another friend, in the UK, with two small children and he groaned and said he couldn't figure out what the heck his kids did to use so much paper. I remember my parents constantly nagging me as a child to use less.
 
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C_Claycomb

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My Hong Kong based pilot friend who's conversation sparked this thread has posted further to our group of friends.

"No congregation...... it’s just kicking off in Europe and the US. And it WILL get a lot worse. No point being any false illusions. Asia has actually done very well IMHO trying to contain it, or at least to reduce contamination. I’d say 99% of people in HKG are masked when you go out, (except for some smokers... yes the concept is amusing). I don’t feel the gravity of the situation will sink in sufficiently for the European countries and the US in particular. The recovery is to basically put these patients under oxygen breathers etc. Which will for sure not be able to keep up in numbers if things really take off. Fingers crossed...."

and this, which is forwarded:
I am writing to you from Bergamo, Italy, at the heart of the coronavirus crisis. The news media in the US has not captured the severity of what is happening here. I am writing this post because each of you, today, not the government, not the school district, not the mayor, each individual citizen has the chance, today to take actions that will deter the Italian situation from becoming your own country’s reality. The only way to stop this virus is to limit contagion. And the only way to limit contagion is for millions of people to change their behavior today.

If you are in Europe or the US you are weeks away from where we are today in Italy.

I can hear you now. “It’s just a flu. It only affects old people with preconditions”

There are 2 reasons why Coronavirus has brought Italy to it’s knees. First it is a flu is devastating when people get really sick they need weeks of ICU – and, second, because of how fast and effectively it spreads. There is 2 week incubation period and many who have it never show symptoms.

When Prime Minister Conte announced last night that the entire country, 60 million people, would go on lock down, the line that struck me most was “there is no more time.” Because to be clear, this national lock down, is a hail mary. What he means is that if the numbers of contagion do not start to go down, the system, Italy, will collapse.

Why? Today the ICUs in Lombardy are at capacity – more than capacity. They have begun to put ICU units in the hallways. If the numbers do not go down, the growth rate of contagion tells us that there will be thousands of people who in a matter of a week? two weeks? who will need care. What will happen when there are 100, or a 1000 people who need the hospital and only a few ICU places left?

On Monday a doctor wrote in the paper that they have begun to have to decide who lives and who dies when the patients show up in the emergency room, like what is done in war. This will only get worse.

There are a finite number of drs, nurses, medical staff and they are getting the virus. They have also been working non-stop, non-stop for days and days. What happens when the drs, nurses and medical staff are simply not able to care for the patients, when they are not there?

And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment.

You have a chance to make a difference and stop the spread in your country. Push for the entire office to work at home today, cancel birthday parties, and other gatherings, stay home as much as you can. If you have a fever, any fever, stay home. Push for school closures, now. Anything you can do to stop the spread, because it is spreading in your communities – there is a two week incubation period – and if you do these things now you can buy your medical system time.

And for those who say it is not possible to close the schools, and do all these other things, locking down Italy was beyond anyone’s imagination a week ago.

Soon you will not have a choice, so do what you can now.

Please share."

Looks like this source:
https://mronline.org/2020/03/10/tes...-in-the-heart-of-italys-coronavirus-outbreak/
 
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GuestD

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Feb 10, 2019
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My Hong Kong based pilot friend who's conversation sparked this thread has posted further to our group of friends.

"No congregation...... it’s just kicking off in Europe and the US. And it WILL get a lot worse. No point being any false illusions. Asia has actually done very well IMHO trying to contain it, or at least to reduce contamination. I’d say 99% of people in HKG are masked when you go out, (except for some smokers... yes the concept is amusing). I don’t feel the gravity of the situation will sink in sufficiently for the European countries and the US in particular. The recovery is to basically put these patients under oxygen breathers etc. Which will for sure not be able to keep up in numbers if things really take off. Fingers crossed...."

and this, which is forwarded:
I am writing to you from Bergamo, Italy, at the heart of the coronavirus crisis. The news media in the US has not captured the severity of what is happening here. I am writing this post because each of you, today, not the government, not the school district, not the mayor, each individual citizen has the chance, today to take actions that will deter the Italian situation from becoming your own country’s reality. The only way to stop this virus is to limit contagion. And the only way to limit contagion is for millions of people to change their behavior today.

If you are in Europe or the US you are weeks away from where we are today in Italy.

I can hear you now. “It’s just a flu. It only affects old people with preconditions”

There are 2 reasons why Coronavirus has brought Italy to it’s knees. First it is a flu is devastating when people get really sick they need weeks of ICU – and, second, because of how fast and effectively it spreads. There is 2 week incubation period and many who have it never show symptoms.

When Prime Minister Conte announced last night that the entire country, 60 million people, would go on lock down, the line that struck me most was “there is no more time.” Because to be clear, this national lock down, is a hail mary. What he means is that if the numbers of contagion do not start to go down, the system, Italy, will collapse.

Why? Today the ICUs in Lombardy are at capacity – more than capacity. They have begun to put ICU units in the hallways. If the numbers do not go down, the growth rate of contagion tells us that there will be thousands of people who in a matter of a week? two weeks? who will need care. What will happen when there are 100, or a 1000 people who need the hospital and only a few ICU places left?

On Monday a doctor wrote in the paper that they have begun to have to decide who lives and who dies when the patients show up in the emergency room, like what is done in war. This will only get worse.

There are a finite number of drs, nurses, medical staff and they are getting the virus. They have also been working non-stop, non-stop for days and days. What happens when the drs, nurses and medical staff are simply not able to care for the patients, when they are not there?

And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment.

You have a chance to make a difference and stop the spread in your country. Push for the entire office to work at home today, cancel birthday parties, and other gatherings, stay home as much as you can. If you have a fever, any fever, stay home. Push for school closures, now. Anything you can do to stop the spread, because it is spreading in your communities – there is a two week incubation period – and if you do these things now you can buy your medical system time.

And for those who say it is not possible to close the schools, and do all these other things, locking down Italy was beyond anyone’s imagination a week ago.

Soon you will not have a choice, so do what you can now.

Please share."

Looks like this source:
https://mronline.org/2020/03/10/tes...-in-the-heart-of-italys-coronavirus-outbreak/

About the only post truly worth reading in this thread.

As for walls. They may well keep out some things, but stupidity isn't one of them.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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.......And finally for those who say that this is just something that happens to old people, starting yesterday the hospitals are reporting that younger and younger patients – 40, 45, 18, are coming in for treatment.........
I haven’t heard or read where anyone has said only the elderly get it: rather that generally only the elderly or those with underlying conditions have died from it. So yes, young people will likely show up for treatment.
 
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C_Claycomb

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I think what I have been hearing from people around me is that the young ones are not worried about getting it, that it is only the old that need to worry.
 

Woody girl

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Mar 31, 2018
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I have just heard some bojo on the radio say he's doing everything possible to stop the virus!
They are apparently well prepared and working around the clock to keep people safe.
So why has my local surgery have nothing no masks etc for staff?
I am already staying at home and not going out at all. I'm well prepared food wise. And I have my supplies of loo rolls, detoll and hand sanitiser.
I'm using the time to spring clean and sort my garden out. , and try to do any maintainance
jobs that need doing. knit a new jumper and read good books. Also sorting out my camp gear, and making other stuff.
To be honest I saw this comming as soon as China locked down.
People have been asleep or in denial.
The government are promising a multi billion pound response.
Forgive me but I wonder where all this money is comming from. We've had a decade long decline in business.
Growth after the virus is going to be higher than ever before :) :) :)
More jobs and higher wages :) :) :).
Ye Gods this budget speech is a fairy tale!!!
I've added up his promises. 147 million pounds and that's with tax cuts and higher wages!
 
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TLM

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Nov 16, 2019
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From Yes Minister something like: "I never believe anything until it has been officially denied." Very true also here.
 
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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
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Budget is a sales pitch. Important stuff as always goes on behind the scenes. The small print the majority never look at or even get to look at is where it's important. Budget speech and debate is like PMQs, politics as entertainment. It's about political spin from all sides.

However, I've been reading comments from big hitters among the economists in city of London and economics journalists. It seems the £30bn fiscal stimulus is well regarded. We're talking PwC, EY, etc. Their top economists sound positive.

Personally, I don't know enough to agree or question their take on things. Chief uk economist at EY is highly likely to know more than I. If you know better then good for you. You're unlikely to be posting on here if you do imho. You're likely helping a big financial institution react to the budget, making your own wedge in the process.
 
Jul 30, 2012
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I think what I have been hearing from people around me is that the young ones are not worried about getting it, that it is only the old that need to worry.
According to one of thoes video of the radio things above,10 percent of chinese men over 70 who grew up in the midst of chairman maos great leap forward, lived uptil the industrial revolution there, worked in the most polluted jobs and smoked all there lives are dying. Women in the same areas over 70 are at 2 percent.My thoughts are anyone with emphysema etc. So retired coal miners, plasterers, builders etc. Average life expectancy in china for a man is 74 for all the male populace.

But then again do not believe everything people on the internet say

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...ures-coronavirus-iranian-cleric?ref=hvper.com
 
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