The Advantages of A flintlock Gun for Long Term Wilderness Living/Survival.

[mrcharly]

Since when have muzzle loaders been illegal to hunt with in the uk....I no a man who use a muzzle loader to shoot crows pigeon rabbit and thin he's took fox aswell all in the uk.... He post about it on the Internet

I've looked and looked and I can't find anywhere saying it is illegal to hunt with a muzzle-loader.

I think when you apply for a license for the gun and to buy the black powder (or smokeless) you have to state the purpose and 'hunting' isn't one of the reasons they accept. However hunting with a muzzle loader doesn't seem to be illegal.

 

[Navek]

Muzzle loaded shotgun?

To be honest I'm not too sure ... He has a fling lock and percussion cap. They look exactly the same as those muzzle loading guns they have in films like last of the Mohicans and the revinent I was under the impression they were classed as s shotgun as they are smooth bored and not rifled in the barrle

 

[Janne]

To be honest I'm not too sure ... He has a fling lock and percussion cap. They look exactly the same as those muzzle loading guns they have in films like last of the Mohicans and the revinent I was under the impression they were classed as s shotgun as they are smooth bored and not rifled in the barrle

It is easy to get a shotgun permit in UK, very easy. If you are correct, and you might be, if a long gun with a smooth bore is classified as a shotgun - what an easy way to get a
Long gun that can be used to take deer and such!

 

[Countryman]

Without specific license authority for any "firearm" (not shotgun) to be used to hunt live quarry in this country it is illegal to use it for this purpose. All live quarry hunted with a "firearm" must only be shot with a bullet that is designed to expand in a controlled manner on impact. Lead ball does not meet this requirement.

I doubt that a black powder gun would meet the muzzle velocity requirement of 2450 feet per second for deer in Scotland.

Not sure of the Muzzle Energy on your specific powder belcher but you would need to hit 1700 ft lbs to be otherwise legitimate for use on deer anyway. Regardless irrelevant because of the above.

Might be in the absence of any specific legislation but it's not legal to use a black powder "firearm" to hunt.

We don't allow bow hunting in the UK either.

Basically the UK limits hunting to specifically licenced individuals, on land either cleared by themselves or specifically by the police to use firearms that have the best chance of achieving a humane kill and minimising accidents.

Loads to pick holes in there and no doubt some pedantry to follow but without quoting statute at you that's how firearms law works.

FYI only under very specific circumstances can a shotgun be used on deer in the UK.




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[mrcharly]

You can't just walk into a field and shoot deer, you know. It's more complicated than that.

 

[Countryman]

It is easy to get a shotgun permit in UK, very easy. If you are correct, and you might be, if a long gun with a smooth bore is classified as a shotgun - what an easy way to get a
Long gun that can be used to take deer and such!

Define easy! If you have good reason, a couple character references, a decent history of being law abiding, no history of domestic disputes or violence or drug abuse, the Doctor is happy that you aren't depressed or medically unfit for reasons of your mental or physical health, you are prepared to buy a safe, secure it to the fabric of your home, otherwise follow the conditions printed on your shotgun certificate as if laid down by God Almighty and can fork over £80 then yes it's a cinch!

You still aren't hunting deer with it!

 

[santaman2000]

It is easy to get a shotgun permit in UK, very easy. If you are correct, and you might be, if a long gun with a smooth bore is classified as a shotgun - what an easy way to get a
Long gun that can be used to take deer and such!

.......FYI only under very specific circumstances can a shotgun be used on deer in the UK.




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From previous threads I was under the impression there were no circumstances where shotguns were legal for deer there?

 

[Countryman]

Very specific. It's not really legal but there is a "Farmers Defence"
Homicide is never legal but you might claim self defence.



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[santaman2000]

Very specific. It's not really legal but there is a "Farmers Defence"
Homicide is never legal but you might claim self defence.



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Ahhhh. Makes sense now. Sort of the morror of the "hunting with muzzleloaders bit?" There's no specific law against it (muzzleloader hunting) but the conditions make it impossible to define as "legal." With shotgun deer deer hunting it's generally illegal, but there are certain circumstances that render said law moot.

 

[Countryman]

Yes!

We have a law review going through at the moment. This will issue new guidance to Chief Constables of each Licencing Authority. This may not specifically change statute but it SHOULD standardise the way each force treats individual issues.

From the above you can probably see that our UK firearms laws are complex with a number of "grey areas". Scotland has many different laws to England. Northern Ireland, different. Jersey and the Channel Islands, very different.

It's a minefield! I guess that's what got me interested.


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[Navek]

It is easy to get a shotgun permit in UK, very easy. If you are correct, and you might be, if a long gun with a smooth bore is classified as a shotgun - what an easy way to get a
Long gun that can be used to take deer and such!

Well you carnt use one single shot . I'e on 50 call or a slug as in the uk that is classed as a firearm...hear in the uk you can use a muzzle loader for hunting rabbit hare goose pigeon crow squirel fox duck ect ect you can also use a shotgun (or a muzzle loader) to kill a deer in certain circumstances Ie a farmer catches a deer destroying his crops and he has his shotgun/muzzle loader with him he can shoot it aslong as its in season and on his land...shot such as ssgs would kill a deer at close range but if I was going out to hunt deer I'd use something made for the job such as a 243 or 308

 

[Janne]

From previous threads I was under the impression there were no circumstances where shotguns were legal for deer there?

With long gun I mean a rifled or smooth bore gun with a long barrel, one that is not a revolver of a pistol. I use this name as the word "rifle" means a long gun with rifling? ( sorry for the confusion, I am not a native English speaker.)

In UK, I only owned 2 barrel shotguns, both Over/Under and Side by Side.

 

[EddieP]

For a shotgun you don't need good reason in the same extent that a firearm needs.

Expanding is only mandated in the deer act.

But apart from that. I've not heard of anyone using a muzzle loader on game beyond pigeons and rabbits.

 

[Janne]

Define easy! If you have good reason, a couple character references, a decent history of being law abiding, no history of domestic disputes or violence or drug abuse, the Doctor is happy that you aren't depressed or medically unfit for reasons of your mental or physical health, you are prepared to buy a safe, secure it to the fabric of your home, otherwise follow the conditions printed on your shotgun certificate as if laid down by God Almighty and can fork over £80 then yes it's a cinch!

You still aren't hunting deer with it!

Yes, easy. Law abiding citizen, no criminal conviction. No mental issues, no violent or anti social behavior. Friend that provided me with a letter that I was helping with rabbit culls, before I bought a couple of fields with a small patch of forest to enjoy.

I lived in East Sussex in a small village called Mayfield, then in a farmhouse outside Mayfield.

I took rabbit, duck, pheasant and a few Canada Geese with it.

The people with the "problems" you mention would never get a gun permit in Sweden either, thank the Gods.
Good to have a gun safe bolted securely, good for safe keeping passports, jewellery and so on.


In Sweden hunt for deer with a shotgun was legal when I lived there 20 years ago, do not know today.

 

[Countryman]

Easy is:

I fancy a shotgun!

Go to Walmart, select shotgun from range in stock, select a couple boxes ammo, slug, SSG, no problem. Pay.

Go home and stick it behind the bedroom door.


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[Janne]

Easy is:

I fancy a shotgun!

Go to Walmart, select shotgun from range in stock, select a couple boxes ammo, slug, SSG, no problem. Pay.

Go home and stick it behind the bedroom door.


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True. Then send your kid to school and live in fear that some deranged friend of his that a girl rejected will shoot him and a bunch of other.
That is the other side of the coin.

Here on Island, we need to be members of the gun club, get an approval letter from the board to apply for a permit, have two character letters from prominent citizens ( Dr's, Dentist,priest, lawyer etc), produce a clear Police Clearance ( no criminal record). Yes, you need a bolted gun safe too.

 

[Countryman]

Yeah I'm certainly not advocating that is my ideal. It's obviously the case in some other countries.

I think some background checks and security arrangements make sense. I feel that UK law is too hardware specific. If I'm fit to hold a gun don't tell me what I can have. If I'm not fit to hold a gun the type doesn't really matter.


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[Janne]

Very true.
Wife missed her hand guns she had in Sweden a lot more than I did, and started shooting .22 high precision rifle.
Also easy to get a permit for.
I never tried to get a rifle permit as I did not have the opportunity to shoot deer and such, so I do not know the difficulty of getting a permit for one or two of those!

Here in Cayman, I need to wait for our new range to be built before I can apply for a rifle permit. Can not wait!
Several of the members hunt in the US, and they keep the rifles in the US.

 

[Laurentius]

Well you carnt use one single shot . I'e on 50 call or a slug as in the uk that is classed as a firearm...hear in the uk you can use a muzzle loader for hunting rabbit hare goose pigeon crow squirel fox duck ect ect you can also use a shotgun (or a muzzle loader) to kill a deer in certain circumstances Ie a farmer catches a deer destroying his crops and he has his shotgun/muzzle loader with him he can shoot it aslong as its in season and on his land...shot such as ssgs would kill a deer at close range but if I was going out to hunt deer I'd use something made for the job such as a 243 or 308

On a technical point, if it is out of season and eating your crops can you hit it with a big stick or would someone be calling the RSPCA?

 

[Navek]

You'd do well to hit a deer with a stick unless it's a very long stick....although in this day and age the rspca would try have you done for stepping on snails or slugs

But no I Dout you would get done if you chased a deer down the field with a big stick