Survival Air Rifles?
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I agree with all said above, though a HW95 is lighter and just as reliable. I like open sights on a rifle though which the HW80 has, as does the 77. Again, simple and unlikely to fail, good out to 25 yards if you are a decent shot.
I believe BSA did a take down springer, called the "BreakDown" Confidence inspiring name that wonder why others call them takedowns 
Actually if memory serves it was for the Australian market, to be packed just incase you broke down in the bush.
I think it was .177 only, skipping the general hunting .177 Vs .22 debate, weight for weight you can carry/store something like twice as many .177 pellets compared to .22.
Actually if memory serves it was for the Australian market, to be packed just incase you broke down in the bush.
I think it was .177 only, skipping the general hunting .177 Vs .22 debate, weight for weight you can carry/store something like twice as many .177 pellets compared to .22.
Me being a poor shot, my TDR has a big scope and a bipod, which bulks it up even more. That's without the pump.
Some pistols are OK for rabbits; and better for ratting. You can even fit a death ray, if you're that way inclined.
Sorry fella, but there isn't a single 'legal without a licence' air pistol in Britain that would be anything like humane to use for hunting live quarry. Air pistols are limited to 6ft/lbs muzzle energy by law in the UK (Air rifles are limited to 12ft/lbs) and this is nowhere near enough power to ensure clean kills at anything like the sort of distance even a man with exceptional field craft skills is going to get from a rabbit that doesn't have Myxy. I wouldn't even want to be using one against rats. No mater what the quarry species is, it deserves a quick, clean kill or you simply shouldn't be shooting them at all.
Even putting aside the issue of the lack of power, if you can put every shot from an air pistol inside a 1" circle at your normal hunting range you should be shooting targets for your country my friend, not ratting.
Air pistols are fun, but they SHOULD NOT be used for shooting live quarry.
On a serious note, A survival Air rifle could not be a PCP!
Being survival (in the tense that I presume we are all speaking) means that the world and or this country has lost all sense of direction, i.e. huge civil disturbance / all loss of law and order i.e. Shops and Supermarkets closed / broken into, and all stock stolen....
With a PCP you would need to own a Buddy Bottle, Which would fill your rifle 10 times, maybe a little more, then what? The dive shop has been burnt down… Own a stirrup pump and hoses? More kit to carry (can you carry more unwanted kit in a survival situation, these aren’t small objects)
I owned a Falcon Raptor light hunter a few years back which gave me 20 shots per fill !!!
Phill ue stated:-
I'd be after livestock before rabbits! Sheep, pigs and cow would be on the menu
You wouldn’t need a gun for these animals, Just a good sharp knife... which I think most of us own. If not a good sharp kitchen knife would do…
Phill ue Stated (sorry im not picking on you, Just going down the list):-
You could just take the action out of the stock and knock the pin of the break barrel out to fold the rifle up.
In doing this would loose the zero of the rifle, and you would have to re-zero your rifle, maybe a waste of 10 pellets every time you take it down. (every pellet counts)
Matt S Stated a crossbow.
Too powerfull in my mind, If you missed your target you would never find your bolt in undergroth or short grass, If you hit your target the flights will be stripped from the bolt (I know as I have done it) needing a repair kit/glue etc, and a huge stash of bolts. I think they are Bulky as they are the same size as an air rifle but with a bow fitted to the front.
With a Springer, you could shoot it as many times as you had pellets. there are some short i.e. HC “hunter carbine” ones out there like the Air Arms Pro Sport. Built to last for ever and has its own power source built onboard. There are many good makes out there…
To mention Rim fire / Shotgun before this big event happened, You would need a licence, When the world ended, so to speak, it would be too late to go out and find one. Ammunition would also be a problem its bulky and heavy and in the real world you can only store a limited amount (you can’t stock pile it, just in case) though you could in theory put 1000 .177 air rifle pellets in your pocket.
There are some big conversation going on, (and I think I read one on here) about publishing intention on survival in loss of law and order situations, If everybody knows your plans, when all goes tits up, where are people going to turn?
This also goes for licences! your plans will have been noted. With airrifles there is no paper trail, as long as you pay in cash…
Being survival (in the tense that I presume we are all speaking) means that the world and or this country has lost all sense of direction, i.e. huge civil disturbance / all loss of law and order i.e. Shops and Supermarkets closed / broken into, and all stock stolen....
With a PCP you would need to own a Buddy Bottle, Which would fill your rifle 10 times, maybe a little more, then what? The dive shop has been burnt down… Own a stirrup pump and hoses? More kit to carry (can you carry more unwanted kit in a survival situation, these aren’t small objects)
I owned a Falcon Raptor light hunter a few years back which gave me 20 shots per fill !!!
Phill ue stated:-
I'd be after livestock before rabbits! Sheep, pigs and cow would be on the menu
You wouldn’t need a gun for these animals, Just a good sharp knife... which I think most of us own. If not a good sharp kitchen knife would do…
Phill ue Stated (sorry im not picking on you, Just going down the list):-
You could just take the action out of the stock and knock the pin of the break barrel out to fold the rifle up.
In doing this would loose the zero of the rifle, and you would have to re-zero your rifle, maybe a waste of 10 pellets every time you take it down. (every pellet counts)
Matt S Stated a crossbow.
Too powerfull in my mind, If you missed your target you would never find your bolt in undergroth or short grass, If you hit your target the flights will be stripped from the bolt (I know as I have done it) needing a repair kit/glue etc, and a huge stash of bolts. I think they are Bulky as they are the same size as an air rifle but with a bow fitted to the front.
With a Springer, you could shoot it as many times as you had pellets. there are some short i.e. HC “hunter carbine” ones out there like the Air Arms Pro Sport. Built to last for ever and has its own power source built onboard. There are many good makes out there…
To mention Rim fire / Shotgun before this big event happened, You would need a licence, When the world ended, so to speak, it would be too late to go out and find one. Ammunition would also be a problem its bulky and heavy and in the real world you can only store a limited amount (you can’t stock pile it, just in case) though you could in theory put 1000 .177 air rifle pellets in your pocket.
There are some big conversation going on, (and I think I read one on here) about publishing intention on survival in loss of law and order situations, If everybody knows your plans, when all goes tits up, where are people going to turn?
This also goes for licences! your plans will have been noted. With airrifles there is no paper trail, as long as you pay in cash…
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I agree 100%
You shouldnt be hunting any animal further than the distance you can get a solid group (5 rounds) inside 1
If that be 15 metres SO BE THAT YOUR MAX DISTANCE you shoot at live quarry.
Im not vegetarian.. Or an animal protector
far from it
I just believe that every living animal. If its to be shot, (for the pot) should be dispatched, Cleanly and Quickly.
I could be wrong But I think I read somewhere that you:- need a pellet to hit its target between 6 and 7psi to dispach a rabbit cleanly with a head shot, Stating this means that a pistol isnt powerfull enough to do this, as the legal limit is 6psi (and there arn't many that reach this) where-as an airrifle can do this at around the 40+m mark.
This is an interesting thread, its got me going, LOL
.177 and .22
I used to shoot .22 then changed to .177
I will bypass the .22 for fur and .177 for feather lecture
As I think its all BULL.. LOL
If you hit a target with a well placed pellet to the back of the head be it a .177 or a .22 with a near the limit rifle it WILL dispatch your quarry. Full stop.
(I have only EVER had one instance where a .177 pellet went straight through a rabbits head, and the rabbit was under 5m away) I always go for the head shot (nothing else) please read my listing above... Not only that it spoils meat, I could however understand why a .177 would go straight through if aiming at the chest as between the ribs is just air and a little tissue forming the heart and organs…
Sorry I got a little distracted.. The reason why I changed from .22 to .177 is trajectory (Very important) and all Target Field Hunters will tell you this)
I found that when shooting at quarry which wasn’t at my Zero range (i.e. 20m) I had to aim off either higher or lower depending if the target was closer or further away, and with a .22 the longer the range the more you have to hold off...
I found that when using .177 (apart from shooting under 5m) the pellet when shot correctly would fly through an imaginary tube either 1cm high or 1cm low, right out to 40m So if you couldn’t guess your quarry distance (or got it wrong) to within about 2m at long range with a .22 air rifle pellet you might miss but with a .177 (at the same target) the flight trajectory is more forgiving (flatter) and you would have a better chance of a clean HIT. Thus getting you a free meal for the pot.
.177 and .22
I used to shoot .22 then changed to .177
I will bypass the .22 for fur and .177 for feather lecture
As I think its all BULL.. LOL
If you hit a target with a well placed pellet to the back of the head be it a .177 or a .22 with a near the limit rifle it WILL dispatch your quarry. Full stop.
(I have only EVER had one instance where a .177 pellet went straight through a rabbits head, and the rabbit was under 5m away) I always go for the head shot (nothing else) please read my listing above... Not only that it spoils meat, I could however understand why a .177 would go straight through if aiming at the chest as between the ribs is just air and a little tissue forming the heart and organs…
Sorry I got a little distracted.. The reason why I changed from .22 to .177 is trajectory (Very important) and all Target Field Hunters will tell you this)
I found that when shooting at quarry which wasn’t at my Zero range (i.e. 20m) I had to aim off either higher or lower depending if the target was closer or further away, and with a .22 the longer the range the more you have to hold off...
I found that when using .177 (apart from shooting under 5m) the pellet when shot correctly would fly through an imaginary tube either 1cm high or 1cm low, right out to 40m So if you couldn’t guess your quarry distance (or got it wrong) to within about 2m at long range with a .22 air rifle pellet you might miss but with a .177 (at the same target) the flight trajectory is more forgiving (flatter) and you would have a better chance of a clean HIT. Thus getting you a free meal for the pot.
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So after all my ranting above, I think (and this is just my personal opinion) the best Survival Rifle would be an Spring / Gas-ram Air rifle in .177 cal in a Carbine or hunter Carbine outfit.
The experience of some would contradict this, but I absolutely agree that the use of inappropriate equipment for live quarry should be discouraged.
For this reason, I retract what I said.
Just been on my trajectory program for pellet weight vs ft/lb
For an air pistol firing at dead on 6ft/lb firing a .177 pellet (lighter of the two .22/.177) at 30m you would have to aim soo high, that with iron sights you just wouldn't be able to see the target.... and would have to guess...
For an air pistol firing at dead on 6ft/lb firing a .177 pellet (lighter of the two .22/.177) at 30m you would have to aim soo high, that with iron sights you just wouldn't be able to see the target.... and would have to guess...
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as already posted lots of items have limitations on a apocaliptic siuation etc
but rememeber Spring guns do not go on for ever either they do require regular servicing which is at least a strip down and relube yearly is good if high use but every 2-3 etc so if you really think this is a use for it then you best know how to maintain it over time and lay in some spares of main springs and piston washers at least Oh and a spring compressor to strip it etc
ammo is small and light but is also fragile and will run out in time as well plus is very limited in what you can take to small game
ignoring everything else for me the best compromise on size weight ease of maintainace and ammo size and quarry avalible is a bolt action 22 LR
but as pointed out this is more difficult to get in UK and stockpiling ammo would be a problem to ie illegal over your limit tho easy to do
ATB
Duncan
but rememeber Spring guns do not go on for ever either they do require regular servicing which is at least a strip down and relube yearly is good if high use but every 2-3 etc so if you really think this is a use for it then you best know how to maintain it over time and lay in some spares of main springs and piston washers at least Oh and a spring compressor to strip it etc
ammo is small and light but is also fragile and will run out in time as well plus is very limited in what you can take to small game
ignoring everything else for me the best compromise on size weight ease of maintainace and ammo size and quarry avalible is a bolt action 22 LR
but as pointed out this is more difficult to get in UK and stockpiling ammo would be a problem to ie illegal over your limit tho easy to do
ATB
Duncan
Gentlemen - Enough!
The moderating team allow certain threads to run for the sake of sensible discussion but there are topics which attract the attention of those whom we would wish to discourage.
BushcraftUK forum is not the place to discuss "Survival Topics" as stated in the rules and this thread is teettering with one foot over the line. We have already had members softly advertising items for sale outside the "Sales Forum", and had members admitting to carrying out illegal hunting activities.
Rappelby, you posed a reasonably innocent question to open the thread and I suppose the best advice should have been to visit Airgunbbs as they have more knowledge in answering your query.
However the thread has taken a direction that does not sit comfotably with me and if seen by the authorities, could land the forum owner in a very sticky situation.
I appreciate that the original question may have some minor relevance to Bushcraft, but I'm sure you'll all agree that the answers have very little to do with bushcraft per se. I will allow the thread to stand open as many members also use air rifles, however, please be assured that it is being watched closely with a view to closing it down at any time.
Your understanding in appreciated.
Ogri the trog
Forum Moderator
The moderating team allow certain threads to run for the sake of sensible discussion but there are topics which attract the attention of those whom we would wish to discourage.
BushcraftUK forum is not the place to discuss "Survival Topics" as stated in the rules and this thread is teettering with one foot over the line. We have already had members softly advertising items for sale outside the "Sales Forum", and had members admitting to carrying out illegal hunting activities.
Rappelby, you posed a reasonably innocent question to open the thread and I suppose the best advice should have been to visit Airgunbbs as they have more knowledge in answering your query.
However the thread has taken a direction that does not sit comfotably with me and if seen by the authorities, could land the forum owner in a very sticky situation.
I appreciate that the original question may have some minor relevance to Bushcraft, but I'm sure you'll all agree that the answers have very little to do with bushcraft per se. I will allow the thread to stand open as many members also use air rifles, however, please be assured that it is being watched closely with a view to closing it down at any time.
Your understanding in appreciated.
Ogri the trog
Forum Moderator
the bolts would only go straight through if they were bullet tips if you got bladed arrows they'd be fine
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