Stove help required

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Grebby

Nomad
Jul 16, 2008
427
16
Sutton Coldfield
I'm looking for a petrol/pannel wipe stove that isn't stupidly noisy.

I have an MSR Dragonfly which gives good heat and great control but sounds like you are sitting in the after burner on a jet fighter. Other than that the only thing I dislike is the plastic pump unit. It hasn't given me any trouble yet but it just feels wrong if you know what I mean.

I'd like it to be fairly small overall and not stupidly heavy as it will tend to go in my grab bag/daysack ad be mainly used for brews but will get used for cooking aswell.

I've been looking at the Optimus Svea but I am unsure if that would be best. It's nice and simple with a built in fuel tank and is a nice size but the nova is twice as powerful but with the pump adds complexity that may break and a separate fuel cylinder ads bulk and weight. Both also seem pretty noisy but maybe not as noisy as the dragonfly?

I don't want a meths based solution as
a) I'm not particularly fond of them
b) Take ages to boil water
c) Burn times aren't great and refilling has to be done once cool.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should be looking at?

Cheers

Grebby
 

para106

Full Member
Jul 24, 2009
701
8
66
scotland
What about an Optimus 99?? Self contained, fairly light & you can use the lid as a pot. Usually see them on the bay for less than a 123. Cheers.

Or an 8R for that matter - can't use the lid as a pot though.
 
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Oarsnpaddle

Forager
May 24, 2010
128
0
Greater Copenhagen
I don't think the problem with an external flask is as big as it is made out to be, although I too like the simplicity of the Svea. The Nova (and Nova+) has a metal pump which is much sturdier than the plastic one of the Dragonfly. You can keep the pump in the bottle when round and about, so you can choose the bottle the size you want. If using a Svea and the like for a little longer than how much it can carry, you still have to carry a bottle with extra fuel. Also, a Nova can burn more different stuff than the Svea. I use paraffin/kerosene/lamp oil in mine.

With that said, my Evernew DX stand and Evernew alcohol burner is on the way, and I can't wait to try it out, hoping I can leave the Nova+ at home. I have a 500ml trangia alcohol bottle to go with it.
 

Grebby

Nomad
Jul 16, 2008
427
16
Sutton Coldfield
Thanks for the responses.

I've had a look at the various stoves mentioned.

The 99 looks good but I suspect that the shape of it will make packing it where I have in mind a lot more difficult than the svea. Using the lid as a pan isn't really important to me.
The 111T would be even worse packing wise but would have the advantage of the quieter burner so may make up for it.

Oarsnpaddle - You have a good point about the fuel bottle for the nova. How small does the nova burner pack down to without damaging the fuel line? Also thanks for the reassurance about the pump unit. I doubt that I would need more fuel than the svea can hold that often but I would at some point.

Has anyone got (or done a back to back noise comparison of) both the Dragonfly and Nova(+) and can give an idea of the different noise levels. Also the svea if possible.

I have spoken to the guys at base-camp.co.uk and they said that the silent burners (like on 111T) would not perform as well as the roarers if there is any wind. Is this the case? If so how badly? They seemed to think that the svea would be the best option for me rather than the more expensive(nice to hear this from a retailer) Nova type.

The Nova having the separate fuel bottle would make packing easier than any of the square type stoves. Also as far as I can tell it is easier to prime etc. (along similar lines to the Dragonfly). I noticed that the others including the svea need a separate priming fuel although this can be petrol I assume that it can't just be released from the stove fuel tank as with the dragonfly as there would be no pressure at that point? This would then mean that I would need a separate fuel bottle for this anyway, yes?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to work out if it is worth getting another stove. If I do them I could trade/sell my double ring coleman stove as the new stove + dragon fly would do its job or to just try to pack the dragonfly and hope that the pump doesn't fail when I need it. If the various stoves are as noisy as the dragonfly then I will have to do some head scratching.

Cheers

Grebby
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
21
67
south wales
Thanks for the responses.

I've had a look at the various stoves mentioned.

The 99 looks good but I suspect that the shape of it will make packing it where I have in mind a lot more difficult than the svea. Using the lid as a pan isn't really important to me.
The 111T would be even worse packing wise but would have the advantage of the quieter burner so may make up for it.

Oarsnpaddle - You have a good point about the fuel bottle for the nova. How small does the nova burner pack down to without damaging the fuel line? Also thanks for the reassurance about the pump unit. I doubt that I would need more fuel than the svea can hold that often but I would at some point.

Has anyone got (or done a back to back noise comparison of) both the Dragonfly and Nova(+) and can give an idea of the different noise levels. Also the svea if possible.

I have spoken to the guys at base-camp.co.uk and they said that the silent burners (like on 111T) would not perform as well as the roarers if there is any wind. Is this the case? If so how badly? They seemed to think that the svea would be the best option for me rather than the more expensive(nice to hear this from a retailer) Nova type.

The Nova having the separate fuel bottle would make packing easier than any of the square type stoves. Also as far as I can tell it is easier to prime etc. (along similar lines to the Dragonfly). I noticed that the others including the svea need a separate priming fuel although this can be petrol I assume that it can't just be released from the stove fuel tank as with the dragonfly as there would be no pressure at that point? This would then mean that I would need a separate fuel bottle for this anyway, yes?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to work out if it is worth getting another stove. If I do them I could trade/sell my double ring coleman stove as the new stove + dragon fly would do its job or to just try to pack the dragonfly and hope that the pump doesn't fail when I need it. If the various stoves are as noisy as the dragonfly then I will have to do some head scratching.

Cheers

Grebby

The 123, 8's and 99's are all less output by a big margin over stoves like the Nova or Omnifuel. The 111T is your best bet and a £3 fold up windshield will overcome wind problems mentioned by Mike at basecamp; these also burn paraffin or naptha/panel wipe/Aspen 4T etc.

You can buy a silent damper cap from an American stove guy to use on a Nova but this will add another @ £70 to your bill for which you could buy two 111T's. Remember that the roar of a Nova drops dramatically when you are simmering. I like the roar of a stove at times, its a reassuring sound in the winter camps but this is just a personal view.
 

Oarsnpaddle

Forager
May 24, 2010
128
0
Greater Copenhagen
T
Oarsnpaddle - You have a good point about the fuel bottle for the nova. How small does the nova burner pack down to without damaging the fuel line? Also thanks for the reassurance about the pump unit. I doubt that I would need more fuel than the svea can hold that often but I would at some point.


I didn't know how I should measure it and give you a number, so I have instead uploaded a few pictures with two different ways to have the fuel line "packed". I don't use a rubber band normally, but it was an easy way to do in order to take the pictures. The rubber band is not tight. It just holds it. Anyway, here you are:

L1050879.jpg

L1050880.jpg

L1050882.jpg

L1050883.jpg

L1050884.jpg



Has anyone got (or done a back to back noise comparison of) both the Dragonfly and Nova(+) and can give an idea of the different noise levels. Also the svea if possible.
I used to own a Dragonfly, and the Nova/Nova+ is still quite noisy, but not even close to the noise of the Dragonfly.





I have spoken to the guys at base-camp.co.uk and they said that the silent burners (like on 111T) would not perform as well as the roarers if there is any wind. Is this the case? If so how badly? They seemed to think that the svea would be the best option for me rather than the more expensive(nice to hear this from a retailer) Nova type.
Yes, that's true. The roarers are less prone to have the flame moved by the wind. How much a difference it makes depends on whether or not you use a windscreen and how much the wind is blowing and whether the wind is blowing constantly or with gusts.

The Nova having the separate fuel bottle would make packing easier than any of the square type stoves. Also as far as I can tell it is easier to prime etc. (along similar lines to the Dragonfly).
The nova/nova+ is very easy to prime, even with paraffin/lamp oil.

A trick to not have it drip when disconnecting the bottle from the fuel line, is to close the fuel line at the burner, so it cannot pull air in that way. Then the vacuum will keep the fuel in the fuel line, perhaps giving you a single drop when disconnecting.
 

Nonsuch

Full Member
Sep 19, 2008
1,862
1
Scotland, looking at mountains
Has no one mentioned an MSR Whisperlite Internationale or did I miss it ?- interchangeability of some parts with the OP's Dragonfly, stable, smaller and less delicate than the latter, light to carry, very hot reliable silent burner. Windproof with the windshield provided, not very adjustable, but reasonable. My Dragonfly now languishes in the cupboard and the Whisperlite gets used.

I would concur that the best silent burner ever made is the Optimus 111T, but probably too heavy to carry and it can be tricky to source and fettle a good one. The 111C was not bad but not as good (different burner, cheaper parts)

Another thought - why not a Trangia 27 with a gas conversion - all your pots included and very very hot and reliable for quick brews. Not Aspen/Panel-wipe based, but my absolute stove of choice these days for carrying.

NS
 
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Ray Britton

Nomad
Jun 2, 2010
320
0
Bristol
You say you want a petrol based stove, but then mention you don't want meths, but don't mention gas.

Just out of interest, is there any reason to avoid gas, as it does not have most of the problems of petrol (such as pumps and spare bottles needed).

That said, what is the criteria in a petrol stove that appeals to you? You want the burner to be quieter than the stove you have now, and you want it fairly small and not overly heavy, but relative to what?

Just as a comparison, how would the go systems multi fuel stove measure up against your criteria? I mention that one, as I am most familiar with it (in the petrol stove range), as its ability to burn diesel is useful to me :)
 

Grebby

Nomad
Jul 16, 2008
427
16
Sutton Coldfield
Thank you everyone:D

I don't want a gas system for a couple of reasons.
1) Expense of canisters
2) Most of the time this will probably be used up on my dads farm. This is not the most remote place in the UK but its not near to the shops. I'm terrible at checking gas canisters so always run out at the most inconvenient time and can't get a replacement.
3) My wife, for some reason, doesn't seem to mind setting fire to a vapourised cloud of petrol BUT is terrified of gas canisters not being fitted correctly etc and leaking:rolleyes:

Due to this gas is not really an option.

rik - I like the 111T but the packed size would be a problem for me. A windshield is something I would carry anyway so it's good to know that the burner would work with this. As the output of the 123 etc are a lot lower I will knock those off the list.

Oarsnpaddle - Thank you for the pictures they show just what I wanted. I think that the Nova will fit easily where I have in mind to pack it. Also thank you for the comparison of the noise from Dragonfly and Nova, I think that I may have to have a play with a Nova and see what I think about the noise.

Nonsuch - A mate MSR Whisperlite and I have the same problem with that as the Dragonfly - The plastic pump. But I'll get him to drop it round so I can have another play and see what I think.

Ray -
That said, what is the criteria in a petrol stove that appeals to you? You want the burner to be quieter than the stove you have now, and you want it fairly small and not overly heavy, but relative to what?
I like petrol as a fuel because it is easy to get hold of, at almost any time of day etc unlike gas canisters. The stove may normally be run on other fuel like panel wipe or whatever but petrol is very easy to find if needed. From previous responses I think that any stove is going to be quieter than the Dragonfly. I want a stove that doesn't mean havig to shout a conversation when its burning. The Dragonfly is WAY TOO NOISY. Size and weight wise, I have a Finnish (I think) gas mask bag that is my grab bag. I don't want a stove that is going to occupy the whole thing space wise(like the 111T will I think, certainly too much space would be taken up). I would like the burner to be able to fit into a smallish billy (11-12cm diameter) weight wise I'm not as bothered but I would say much over 750g-1kg would be a pain. The go systems multi fuel stove looks like the sort of thing I'm after, but this is the first time I've seen it.

After a bit more searching I found an old thread on here by Twodogs who appears to have made exactly what I would like. The 111T burner with a separate fuel bottle/pump that then fits into a honey stove. This also has the advantage that you have a honey stove as well for when the situation allows. I'll have to drop him a PM and ask some questions.

Once again thank you for your comments.

Cheers

Ian
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
21
67
south wales
You can fit the 111T burner easily in the Honey stove or for that matter a real Trangia. Again its more expense, you would need to buy the 111T to canbalise it, then a conversion kit to match it up to a Nova or Omnifuel pump but once done you have a windproof stove that is super fast to boil, simmers well and is quiet. I like gas stoves but even the new propane/butane/isobutane cartridges suffer in the cold (although not as much as the old cartridges) where a paraffin or naptha stove really performs.

Have you looked at something like a Coleman 442 exponent stove, will run on petrol, lights as easy as a gas stove and is much quieter than the others mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDuPCsqAv14
 

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