Stove gas questions

[rorymax]

The 'Gas Stove Freezing Up' thread
(http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138229 ) prompted me to ask about using propane or propane\butane mix in the following types of stove.

I am toying with the idea of refilling used canisters like the one shown in the first image,
I would like to use straight propane preferably for all three types of stoves below.

Will this work satisfactorily, are there any downsides to this, any other advice appreciated.



Next up is a similar stove to the one above but much smaller.



And finally a stove with preheat tubes.



Thanks,
rorymax

 

[sunndog]

I read up on this quite a bit a while back and there was just too much worry about the valves not being good enough for repeated use

Are you finding temps low enough to cause an issue with standard propane mix?

 

[rorymax]

I read up on this quite a bit a while back and there was just too much worry about the valves not being good enough for repeated use

Are you finding temps low enough to cause an issue with standard propane mix?

Standard propane (not propane\butane mix) would I think be my preference as I would simply decant from a calor gas propane bottle to an empty canister (I would weigh the liquid so as not to overfill).

I'm not sure if your concern re the valves relates to the valve on the empty gas canister I would be decanting into, or the valves on the burner itself, or both.

I will have a ready supply of single use only canisters to decant into, and I would probably only refill each canister a maximum of 3 times, I don't know if that would be a safe margin or not .

So I guess I need to know if the canisters and the stoves will be safe to use, and will the stoves I illustrated perform well with propane.

With regard to temperatures, I find a problem with standard butane when the temps get down to around 7c or below.

Any advice or info on any of that appreciated sunndog.

Cheers,
rorymax

 

[Nice65]

Postie dropped off one of those Ti stoves with the fins today. I haven't run it yet, but we should compare notes.

 

[sunndog]

Sorry, i meant the valves on the disposable canister not being strong enough

My research kinda went like this....the americans refill canisters all the time, but with much more robust valve types. There was no evidence i saw but i just pictured a valve blowing inside a tent and thought it was worth it

For what its worth, your stoves should run on full propane ok

 

[rorymax]

Postie dropped off one of those Ti stoves with the fins today. I haven't run it yet, but we should compare notes.

I'm still waiting on mine coming from China Nice65, it was stated as shipped only 3 days ago, don't know when it will arrive .

Yes, I'd like to know your thoughts on your stove, will update when mine arrives.

Cheers
rorymax

 

[rorymax]

Ta sunndog

 

[Nice65]

I'm still waiting on mine coming from China Nice65, it was stated as shipped only 3 days ago, don't know when it will arrive .

Yes, I'd like to know your thoughts on your stove, will update when mine arrives.

Cheers
rorymax

I'll give it a burn in the next few days and pop a link in here. Mine took a couple of weeks, but China shipping is unpredictable to say the least.

It's absolutely tiny, I'm hoping the flame will adjust down for my .4ltr Alpkit mug. It looks a bit fierce on high in the vid.

 

[sunndog]

Are you two talking about the teeny tiny stove?
I'v had one for a year or so and it works great. No probs with smaller pots either, i often use it with a 500ml ti mug

 

[petrochemicals]

Propane is higher pressure, thats why the ppropane cannisters are far thicker. They used to do propane ones, but where takken off the market. If you actually use enough to make it worth the bother of cheaper gas, campingaz do pure isobutane gas that goes to -10c or probably -5 in use, in there cp250, you can either refill the cannisters or get an adapter for straight cannister use.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Campingaz-B...id=1456292300&sr=8-5&keywords=campingaz+cp250

Its basically the same as the jetpower fuel from jetboil, but at a 1/5th the price, the cannister is 100g so a bit lighter, and if all else fails, these cannisters are avaliable with normal butane everywhere. I used to use them, but i like meths alot more.

 

[Tonyuk]

There's nothing wrong with propane 99% of the time. The only real issue I've had with it is performance in cold weather. Most commercial canisters that i see now are a propane/butane mix and seem to always work very well.

Tonyuk

 

[gonzo_the_great]

As an aside on refilling canisters and random related waffle.....

I have refilled all of my screw on carts with pure propane, regardless of them being butane or mix types originally. Not had any problems with pressure of valves.
When I fill, I fill to absolute max. Then immediately vent some off to give me an 'air' gap, and avoid hydraulic pressure when the things warm up. I do the same when refilling 3.9kg bottles. A bit wasteful, but that's my way. (The actual amount vented is guessed. Vent a bit, give it a shake.) And venting does freeze the fill pipe up a bit, as I've not gotten around to making a bespoke, 'let's spray liquid propane about' adapter.

However, I have had issues with the aerosol type, which work with the hob stoves (where you pop the cart in the side, under the flap). On those stoves, there is an over-pressure protection device, which I assume is to trip the stove out is the cart gets too hot. This trips when refilled with propane.
These carts are so cheap that refilling is lunacy, but I had to give it a try, just for the hell of it.

Using these aerosol types with a gas light (coleman F1 and similar from vango) a few of us have had problems with jets clogging. What appears to be a varnish type deposit on the flame side of the jets? So I wonder if there is something in the gas that is getting carried out and deposited as the pressure decreases.
(Whatever it is must be being carried in the vapour phase though??)
Wonder is anyone else has had issues with jets blocking on these lamps?

Jules

 

[pysen78]

Refilling with propane/butane mix is ok if you use good scales and don't overfill.
Refilling with pure propane is NOT safe. You get higher vapour pressure in freezing temperatures which is good, but also at room temperature which means your canister will burst at way lower temps than is safe.

 

[Macaroon]

You really, really, don't want to be doing this without educating yourself fully in all aspects of the hydrocarbon gasses you're talking about. The stoves and containers you're dealing with are all made to the cheapest possible price and will just perform safely enough to satisfy basic safety for their intended purpose only; Propane is a very different beast from Butane both in terms of the pressures it can reach and in the consequences when it burns when and where you don't want it to.

I made my living for a good chunk of time as a commercial airship pilot and a big part of the training for that was flying large passenger balloons; this in turn required extensive training in the science of the gasses we're concerned with here, so I know whereof I speak. As do all who do this training, but sadly I've been to the funerals of several very experienced colleagues who made what seemed simple mistakes, at great cost. I know this seems very melodramatic and we're not talking of using industrial quantities of gas but it takes very little Propane to cause extraordinary damage.

Anybody considering this needs to think very long and hard before embarking on this course, you'll be a danger to yourself and those around you..........

 

[Nice65]

Are you two talking about the teeny tiny stove?
I'v had one for a year or so and it works great. No probs with smaller pots either, i often use it with a 500ml ti mug

I think so, middle one in Rory's pics, with the fins.

 

[Nice65]

I'll give it a burn in the next few days and pop a link in here. Mine took a couple of weeks, but China shipping is unpredictable to say the least.

It's absolutely tiny, I'm hoping the flame will adjust down for my .4ltr Alpkit mug. It looks a bit fierce on high in the vid.

Rather than derail this further, I hope it's ok to put a link up to the post on BB. I'd copy/paste it all here but the pics don't transfer for some reason.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums...-stovey-news&p=2460838&viewfull=1#post2460838

If it can't be accessed by non members, I can get to work on putting the pics somewhere here.

 

[wingstoo]

http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/canister-refiller-warning.html

http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/gas-canister-refilling.html