scouting reg.

[lionheart]

heyo

does anyone know the scouting regulations for carrying a knife, my current leader won't let me carry any of my folders because it is against scouting rules, but she says if i could prove its not she will let me bring a knife, so before i make a fool out of myself are knives allowed at exp.or not.

cheers
Tom

 

[Old Timer]

Now that the scouting movement has gone PC knives are frowned upon. It seems to be up to the scout leader whether he/she allows folding knives to be carried. Baden-Powell must be spinning in his grave.

 

[JoeSmo]

I don't know about you guys but here in America in my troop we can carrry folders. In the Order of the Arrow we are allowed sheath knives. Your leader probably thinks of it as a weapon rather than a tool.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Troop leaders do have some ... disgressionary decision making authority, but there are limits to that.

She has decreed that you have to prove, within the regulations, that you can. Your first step should be to have her produce the regulations she is using to do a blanket denial of your option to carry a knife. Require her to produce the WHOLE SECTION of the regs, so that everybody in the Troop, and their parents, can read the complete section - not just a few words or lines taken out of context. Make sure that several parents are involved in asking this. And appeals can be made up the chain-of-command, if necessary.

Too often, personal beliefs and politics enter into these decisions.

So goes life, and such are my thoughts to share.

Mike Ameling

 

[Philr]

Well being a Leader myself Knives are now not part of the uniform and can only be carried if there is an activity that they are to be used on ie a green camp, Knife axe and saw etc otherwise there is no reason to have one, (they say) which then comes under british law as to when to have and carry one in a public place without good reason I suppose.
Mine are encouraged not to carry them unless there is an activity where they will be used and then with suppervision, this is what POR (Policy Organisation Rules) says 'When cultural requirements or religious needs require, members of recognised faith communities may wear appropriate clothing of a style and fashion in accordance with their beliefs as part of their Scout uniform.

Knives may not be worn with uniform except for religious reasons. .

Hope this helps,

 

[Tengu]

wouldnt a scout come under cultural requirements?

 

[Silverback]

This is the kind of stuff that really makes me sad for my two little boys - when I was a lad there were four things I had with me at all times - a catapult, a penknife and two skinned knees.

I appreciate the need to reduce risk to ALARP but could a scout carrying a pocket folder seriously be interpreted as an individual with malicious intent. PC -Political Correctness or Pathetic Crap!

 

[g4ghb]

whilst knives are not part of the uniform any more and thus should not be worn there is nothing to stop the use of knives in a camp or 'scout hut' environment

After all if they are supervised and trained correctly and the ethos that it is a tool instilled then it is just as valid as using an axe or saw!

If there was a blanket ban of knives in the scout organisation (which there isn't) they would be pretty hungry at the end of a camp - kinda scuppers kitchen and dining dutys

 

[g4ghb]

also if you want confirmation 'from the horses mouth as it were' call the info centre at Gilwell on 0845 3001818 (and yes I do know the number off by heart! )

 

[Osprey]

Although knives are not part of the uniform, it doesn't mean that they are banned.

My son and daughter's scout troop still issue knife, axe and saw certificates for those kids deemed safe to use them. They are allowed to carry SAKs or multitools discreetly, and to use them at camp if needed. During transport or in public, they are to be carried in packs and not in pockets.

I guess we are lucky living in a rural area and having old-fashioned leaders who interpret POR as Press On Regardless

Best wishes,
Doug.

 

[Philr]

I used to be a shooter (hand guns) Until mr Ryan an Lockerbie put the public and media into an emotional frenzy, I gave up but then it was said it was to the good of the public, and hey 20 so years on they havn't managed top stop the criminal element, Gun crime has gone up so nothing has changed,
Knives are a tool not a toy just like fire take it away and the kids want it all the more, Thats when it become dangerous,

 

[BorderReiver]

Well being a Leader myself Knives are now not part of the uniform and can only be carried if there is an activity that they are to be used on ie a green camp, Knife axe and saw etc otherwise there is no reason to have one, (they say) which then comes under british law as to when to have and carry one in a public place without good reason I suppose.
Mine are encouraged not to carry them unless there is an activity where they will be used and then with suppervision, this is what POR (Policy Organisation Rules) says 'When cultural requirements or religious needs require, members of recognised faith communities may wear appropriate clothing of a style and fashion in accordance with their beliefs as part of their Scout uniform.

Knives may not be worn with uniform except for religious reasons. .

Hope this helps,

Two points.

1) There is NO reason needed in law to carry a sub 3" NON LOCKING folder.

2) A folding knife,carried in the pocket,is NOT being worn as part of the uniform.

The leader should be challenged on this stupid arbitary ruling.

 

[brancho]

Two points.

1) There is NO reason needed in law to carry a sub 3" NON LOCKING folder.

Under the age of sixteen this is different!
But having said that my view reflects a lot of what is said above.

I as tropp leader allow my Scouts to carry and use a knife when there is a need to do so. I am looking something I found a whlie ago which is knife permit I found a Scout website which may help you.
You can also come up with specific program odeas to encourage sensible knife usage like soap carving and then onto wood carving or similar.


I personally give each of my Scouts who move up to explorers a SAK with the Scout Logo on it as moving up present from the troop. They deserve if they put up with me for four years. The Scout Association cannot be totally against if it sells SAK's with its own brand on them.

Sorry for rambling

 

[brancho]

Here is a link to an aproach in Canada for Cubs and know of a group in my county that introduces Beavers to knives (basic stuff).
canadian cubs knife rules

 

[JimN]

Two points.

1) There is NO reason needed in law to carry a sub 3" NON LOCKING folder.

2) A folding knife,carried in the pocket,is NOT being worn as part of the uniform.

The leader should be challenged on this stupid arbitary ruling.

Whilst I agree with you, the scout hut will be a private space so the leader can define whatever arbitrary regulations they like.

Surely they can't have a problem with the Wenger Scout Knives

 

[brancho]

Whilst I agree with you, the scout hut will be a private space so the leader can define whatever arbitrary regulations they like.

Surely they can't have a problem with the Wenger Scout Knives

I personally agree with you on the above and as I say have handed out penkives to my Scouts as prizes and presents.
But Lionheart has to persaude someone not as open minded as you and me.

 

[BorderReiver]

Whilst I agree with you, the scout hut will be a private space so the leader can define whatever arbitrary regulations they like.
Surely they can't have a problem with the Wenger Scout Knives

True.The leader is however a representative of the Scouting movement,not a private individual and surely can't be allowed to make up her own rules.

 

[JimN]

I guess it all depends on the interpretation of the relevant POR:

POR: Chapter 10: Uniform, Badges and Emblems
Rule 10.4: Cultural Requirements and Religious Needs

1. When cultural requirements or religious needs require, members of recognised faith communities may wear appropriate clothing of a style and fashion in accordance with their beliefs as part of their Scout uniform.

2. Knives may not be worn with uniform except for religious reasons.

Does having a knife in your pocket constitute "wearing it"?

 

[BorderReiver]

I guess it all depends on the interpretation of the relevant POR:


Does having a knife in your pocket constitute "wearing it"?

You mean like wearing a wallet,or a hanky,or loose change.

No,I think not.More like a sheath knife on the belt.

 

[Stew]

While I agree with what you're saying Mike, I also would disagree.

I'm an assistant Scout leader and to be honest, if some of my Scouts started turning up with pocket knives, I would be very suspicious as some of them are really, erm, challenging to work with! I would worry about the effect it would have on the other Scouts.

Saying that, if they showed an interest, I would dive on it and try and get them enthused in the right way rather than just ban them. It opens up a whole avenue of program ideas.

If they're banned, what happens to me? Can I not take a knife on camp anymore? It would seem quite contradictory.