Roger C Linger Bushcraft Knife

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Ed

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Aug 27, 2003
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He says it was originally designed by Ray Mears as the Woodlore knife
Surely thats illegal
Why?..... he is giving credit where credit is due and not claiming it as his design..... or did you mean 'ray didn't design it' or did you mean 'you can't copy rays design'......

Ed
 

ScottC

Banned
May 2, 2004
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uk
Ed said:
Why?..... he is giving credit where credit is due and not claiming it as his design..... or did you mean 'ray didn't design it' or did you mean 'you can't copy rays design'......

Ed
I meant that he is copying his design is he not? And if you say that it's not exactly the same it wouldn't really matter because he basically says it's the same design as the woodlore. Is that not illegal then?
 

Gary

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Apr 17, 2003
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Scott,

Its only illegal if he's lying and then it takes a lot of proving in a court of law as its his word against the claimants - maybe it was the original design for the woodlore knife after all Alan Woods and Wilkinson sword both make WL's now so why not this guy before them.

As ED says give the guy some credit someone had to work with Ray to design the original concept.

And if he's fibbing - well I am sure WL's lawyors will soon be on the trail.
 

Martyn

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Aug 7, 2003
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Young Bushman said:
Look at this one http://riflestocks.tripod.com/pics17.html

He says it was originally designed by Ray Mears as the Woodlore knife
Surely thats illegal :?: :nono:

There is very litytle that hasn't already been done in the knife world. It would be virtually impossible for somone to patent a knife (of any design), a mechanism, maybe, but to claim original authorship of a simple blade profile would take OJ Simpsons lawyers a month of sundays. But... it ios technically possible. The only problem with that, is that the knife pictured isnt the same - it's similar, but not the same - it only needs to be a little bit different, to be different. This is of course assuming he hasn't worked with RM on the design of the original. If he has, then he may be quite withing his righjts to say this is the original design.

If you were to ask "is this ethical?" - well, that's not the same as legal. Ethcal doesnt cost you money.
 

ScottC

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May 2, 2004
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ok, Well I decided to look at the review he talks about at bladeForums.com http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302564 and came across this post:

I really enjoyed reading this thread!!! Thanks Ron for going to all that effort to share that with us. I am very happy it turned out well for you during your week long course. Looks like Jammie made another great sheath too (for the Sambar). I am suprised he got it done and shipped to you so quickly. Jammie did a super nice job on the sheath he made for me a couple weeks back.

Mete, who generously responded to this thread, did not mention that I am a heat treating student of his via this forum on the 'shop talk' section.

I must confess that until now I was not aware that Ray Mears, or anyone for that matter, is the designer. I assumed it generic handed down from the ages. I will be updating my website where these knives are pictured with full credit to him for that; as it should be.

Roger
Then Later

I have just now updated my website giving full credit to Ray Mears for the original design of this style knife (the style knife of this particular thread - the Woodlore).

I am positive that Ron assumed, me being a knife maker, that I already was aware of the designer and I, not knowing better, never asked. Ron Medise has from the very beginning been sharply specific with me in all details and I know for a fact he would never have intended to not give proper credit if he thought I was unaware. A professional knife maker should always ask if not sure himself.

RL

That clears it up then! :biggthump
 

ScottC

Banned
May 2, 2004
1,176
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uk
The thing is, he didn't work with Ray on the original design, infact he apparently didn't know that it was a design made by Ray Mears but that it was ' generic, handed down from the ages' until someone pointed it out to him on BladeForums. It is infact, not the exact original woodlore design and yet he says it is. I expect he is just trying to give Ray the credit but you know what Lawyers can be like.
 

Gary

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Apr 17, 2003
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well investigated Scott - regarding the knife maker here I think ignorance is bliss but not an excuse. But as Martyn says there are hundreds of similar profiled blades out there some old than some younger than the WL - BIT OF A MINE FIELD MAYBE :yikes:
 

Martyn

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Hmmm, on reflection and after reading over that in detail, as well as looking at the sheath, I'd have to amend my opinion and say that the Linger knife (and sheath) is a complete rip of the woodlore.

V.Bad Mr Linger.
 

tenbears10

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Oct 31, 2003
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Martyn said:
Hmmm, on reflection and after reading over that in detail, as well as looking at the sheath, I'd have to amend my opinion and say that the Linger knife (and sheath) is a complete rip of the woodlore.

V.Bad Mr Linger.
A bit harsh Martyn. The posts on blade forums say that the customer came to him with a very specific design and he made it for them. It was only in that thread that he realised that the design was by Ray Mears. He doesn't even mention Alan Wood because I genuinely beleive he hasn't seen his work and even if you had seen alan's site it makes no mention of woodlore.

If we are talking exact copies then you know as well as I do that he is not the first maker to be asked to do one. Trond's woodie on BB was a close interpretation of a woodlore because thats what customers wanted. Bison bushcraft's forester is almost an exact copy but with slightly different dimentions ( I think the blade length is less, but the steel is the same and the thickness of the blade and the design!).

Unless woodlore have patented their design, which I don't recall they have but if anyone knows otherwise please say, then they don't have a claim on the design especially if it is altered to a new customers specs.

I say fair play as soon as he knew it was someones design he gave credit where it was due. This is going to happen more and more if Alan Wood is snowed under with orders created from the popularity of the woodlore knife. Remember the new series hasn't started yet I bet they get a ton of orders when it does (well if they were still taking them). Who can blame people for sourcing a similar knife elsewhere.

Bill
 

ScottC

Banned
May 2, 2004
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uk
The thing is Bill, the knife is similar to the Woodlore but there are differences in the design and yet he is saying that that exact knife was originally designed by Ray Mears which it wasn't. Ok maybe he is genuinely giving Ray credit or maybe he's using the similarities to his advantage because he knows people are going to buy it if they think it was designed by Ray Mears.

Did Trond say that the knife he made was designed by ray Mears :?:
 

Martyn

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Thing is TB, it's a suprisingly small world, this knifemaking thing. Mr Linger has made several of these knives and is asking us to accept that until it was mentioned in that thread, the Woodlore was completely unknown to him - maybe, but I frankly doubt it.

Either he has directly copied the Woodlore himself, or his customer has and provided him with specs which are a copy of the woodlore. If the latter, and he was genuinely unaware of the origin, now it has been made aware to him, decency would dictate he should withdraw his copies from the market IMO.

Either way, someone (the maker or the customer) has plagarised the woodlore - even down to the sheath, of that there is no doubt. If he wasn't before, the maker is now aware he is copying another makers knife, of that there is no doubt (he admits as much by crediting the Woodlore).

Harsh?

....Just calling it as I see it.

...very little can be done about it though - it's down to "honour amonst knifemakers" i think. I doubt Woodlore would get anywhere by attempting a legal solution.
 

tenbears10

Native
Oct 31, 2003
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Martyn said:
Thing is TB, it's a suprisingly small world, this knifemaking thing. Mr Linger has made several of these knives and is asking us to accept that until it was mentioned in that thread, the Woodlore was completely unknown to him - maybe, but I frankly doubt it. I see your point on that one.

Either he has directly copied the Woodlore himself, or his customer has and provided him with specs which are a copy of the woodlore. If the latter, and he was genuinely unaware of the origin, now it has been made aware to him, decency would dictate he should withdraw his copies from the market IMO. I think it is more a customer thing but that is open to discussion

Either way, someone (the maker or the customer) has plagarised the woodlore - even down to the sheath, of that there is no doubt. If he wasn't before, the maker is now aware he is copying another makers knife, of that there is no doubt (he admits as much by crediting the Woodlore). Again no one can say that it is not a copy but what about my two examples of very similar knives do they fall under the same category?

Harsh?

....Just calling it as I see it.

...very little can be done about it though - it's down to "honour amonst knifemakers" i think. I doubt Woodlore would get anywhere by attempting a legal solution. Do you think that no one is allowed to make an example of this knife with changes for a customer? I think that all the best designs of everything are copied, look at cars, buildings, hair styles, fashion, outdoor equipment, dyson hoovers etc.
I hope you don't mind how I have replied to your post it just seemed eaisest.

Bill