Rim Fire Rifle Question....:)

[lannyman8]

well, after shooting shotguns for over 10 years the next step has come, I applied for my .22 rim fire license which has been granted (near enough), so im ready to shoot bunnies with a bit more clout now....

now as with us all, money is short, im after a rifle, semi auto preferred but bolt action no problem, i have a very good scope which i will take of my air rifle and put the old one back on, so scope is sorted. all i need is the rifle and sound moderator...

what can i get for around £150-200, of course this would be a second hand gun, im not fussed about looks, but it must be reliable and stand up to field shooting, it will after all be used as a working gun out and about in all weathers...

any suggestions gents??????

regards.

chris.

 

[joejoe]

ruger 10/22 cheap and and can be cusomised tp the hilt

 

[lannyman8]

ruger 10/22 cheap and and can be cusomised tp the hilt

thanks, will have a look now...

 

[Dougster]

I have semi and bolt.

Semi is a lot of fun and has taken many many bunnies, but the CZ Brno gets sub 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards and cost me under 200 for scope, mod, rifle and a slack handful of ammo.

I am thinking of getting shot of the custom Remington 597 but I probably never will - that said if I had to keep one - I would keep the accuracy. I wouldn't buy a 597 again again - it's taken too much work and money to get it right, the 10/22 is better if you decide you want semi.

Rimfire magic is well worth a look, and the Sig Sauer 522 is supposed to be the best Semi .22 going - but they are about £400 and look tactical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgEcfnnACYU&feature=watch_response

Even with all the mods I'd have had at least one jam in all that.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Admittedly it was about 8 years ago when I got mine, but a second-hand Brno model 2 (I think, maybe a 4) with scope and moderator was £140. It has never misfired and always performs to a higher accuracy than I am capable of warranting. I just can't fault it.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[British Red]

If you want to try a couple of .22s Lannyman, you can try ours - both Ruger 10/22s

 

[Lister]

Have a look here: http://www.guns.gb.com/contents/en-uk/d120_Used_Rimfire_rifles_01.html

 

[Dougster]

Oops, £700, not £400 - sorry.

 

[Camel]

It all depends what sort of shooting you intend to do with it.

A semi auto is good fun on the range and a fully tricked out Ruger 10/22 may be reliable and accurate but we are talking a lot of money to bring it up to scratch. IMO there are no reasonably priced semi-auto .22 RF that can compare in accuracy and reliability to a bolt action. You will be using subsonics for hunting and these can be a little underpowered for the purpose of operating the action when it's had a few rounds through it and gets dirty. It is also a rare semi that can do better than 1" at 50 yards out of the box. Your limit for range is the range at which you can consistently put your rounds in the kill area of your target, in this case about an inch.

In my opinion the most important attributes of a hunting rifle, be it for rabbits or dangerous game, is reliability and accuracy.

For a pure bunny gun, one that will be used in all weathers and purely as a tool it's hard to beat the CZ or earlier Brno bolt action rimfires at any money IMO. There are higher quality, better finished rifles with better triggers but the CZ or brno is tough, accurate and reliable.

If you have a look on guntrader: http://www.guntrader.co.uk/ and do a search for .22 on there.

A quick search shows a few nice Brno model 2s and even a couple of more recent CZ 452 for under 200 quid. A .22 is almost impossible to shoot out so as long as it's not abused even the older Brno Model 2s should have tens of thousands of rounds left in them and to be perfectly honest are probably much better built than the more modern offerings.

Make sure you get a couple of magazines as the actions stops when you run out of rounds.

Also make sure that it's screwcut ( Threaded for a sound moderator), you did apply for a sound moderator didn't you?

A Parker-Hale moderator is nice and traditional looking, if the barrel has been chopped very short then a bit of weight from the steel unit can help with restore some of the the balance. Another popular moderator is called the "SAK" and being aluminium is a bit lighter. These get dirty on a .22 and so are both strippable. Both are around 30-40 quid, no need to spend more with subsonics.

If you get a CZ the trigger is likely to be as rough as a badger's fundament. Buying second hand you could get lucky and find that the previous owner has had the trigger fettled to a nice crisp, light release but if it isn't a kit from this guy : http://www.yodaveproducts.com/ is around a tenner and transforms the trigger.

In terms of ammo the two main brands seem to be Winchester or Eley subs. The Winchesters have bigger hollowpoints and seem to hit a bit harder at range but the difference is marginal and you should shoot whatever is most accurate in your rifle.

Any questions, shoot.

 

[Dougster]

It all depends what sort of shooting you intend to do with it.

A semi auto is good fun on the range and a fully tricked out Ruger 10/22 may be reliable and accurate but we are talking a lot of money to bring it up to scratch. IMO there are no reasonably priced semi-auto .22 RF that can compare in accuracy and reliability to a bolt action. You will be using subsonics for hunting and these can be a little underpowered for the purpose of operating the action when it's had a few rounds through it and gets dirty. It is also a rare semi that can do better than 1" at 50 yards out of the box. Your limit for range is the range at which you can consistently put your rounds in the kill area of your target, in this case about an inch.

In my opinion the most important attributes of a hunting rifle, be it for rabbits or dangerous game, is reliability and accuracy.

For a pure bunny gun, one that will be used in all weathers and purely as a tool it's hard to beat the CZ or earlier Brno bolt action rimfires at any money IMO. There are higher quality, better finished rifles with better triggers but the CZ or brno is tough, accurate and reliable.

If you have a look on guntrader: http://www.guntrader.co.uk/ and do a search for .22 on there.

A quick search shows a few nice Brno model 2s and even a couple of more recent CZ 452 for under 200 quid. A .22 is almost impossible to shoot out so as long as it's not abused even the older Brno Model 2s should have tens of thousands of rounds left in them and to be perfectly honest are probably much better built than the more modern offerings.

Make sure you get a couple of magazines as the actions stops when you run out of rounds.

Also make sure that it's screwcut ( Threaded for a sound moderator), you did apply for a sound moderator didn't you?

A Parker-Hale moderator is nice and traditional looking, if the barrel has been chopped very short then a bit of weight from the steel unit can help with restore some of the the balance. Another popular moderator is called the "SAK" and being aluminium is a bit lighter. These get dirty on a .22 and so are both strippable. Both are around 30-40 quid, no need to spend more with subsonics.

If you get a CZ the trigger is likely to be as rough as a badger's fundament. Buying second hand you could get lucky and find that the previous owner has had the trigger fettled to a nice crisp, light release but if it isn't a kit from this guy : http://www.yodaveproducts.com/ is around a tenner and transforms the trigger.

In terms of ammo the two main brands seem to be Winchester or Eley subs. The Winchesters have bigger hollowpoints and seem to hit a bit harder at range but the difference is marginal and you should shoot whatever is most accurate in your rifle.

Any questions, shoot.

One of the best posts I have read for a long time.

 

[santaman2000]

It all depends what sort of shooting you intend to do with it.

A semi auto is good fun on the range and a fully tricked out Ruger 10/22 may be reliable and accurate but we are talking a lot of money to bring it up to scratch. IMO there are no reasonably priced semi-auto .22 RF that can compare in accuracy and reliability to a bolt action. You will be using subsonics for hunting and these can be a little underpowered for the purpose of operating the action when it's had a few rounds through it and gets dirty.....

I've never had this problem with a 10-22 when using quality ammo (but then I never use subsonics for anything) However if the idea bothers you then just go ahead now and get the 10-22m (22 magnum) In any case the Ruger is likely to be the best semi available for a reasonable price. And it shoots just fine straight out of the box. I have thrown one behind the seat of the truck and banged it around for years with no problems. Probably near 1000 rounds through it and it got cleaned faithfully at most once every year.

As for accuracy it's true that it's not going to be as accurate as a good bolt action. But then again, rabbits are easily hunted with shotguns so range beyond about 40 yards isn't really an issue anyway.

As others have pointed out, if you go with a bolt then the CZ is likely to be your best value for the money.

 

[Camel]

One of the best posts I have read for a long time.

Thank you Dougster, just glad I can finally pass on some of my own advice instead of just tapping other members up for theirs.

 

[Camel]

I've never had this problem with a 10-22 when using quality ammo (but then I never use subsonics for anything) However if the idea bothers you then just go ahead now and get the 10-22m (22 magnum) In any case the Ruger is likely to be the best semi available for a reasonable price. And it shoots just fine straight out of the box. I have thrown one behind the seat of the truck and banged it around for years with no problems. Probably near 1000 rounds through it and it got cleaned faithfully at most once every year.

As for accuracy it's true that it's not going to be as accurate as a good bolt action. But then again, rabbits are easily hunted with shotguns so range beyond about 40 yards isn't really an issue anyway.

As others have pointed out, if you go with a bolt then the CZ is likely to be your best value for the money.

Don't get me wrong Santaman, I like semi-autos as much as the next man and do like the 10/22 but I have just not found them to reliable in the field.

Out lamping or shooting bunnies with the NV it is not uncommon to shoot 250 rounds in a night. All will be subsonic as we can have moderators and it really does help when shooting at night if you can moderate the noise to the "click, thwack" of a moderated .22 hitting a bunny. Even good quality subs are dirtier than good Standard or HV ammo IME too unfortunately.

I also have found the bunnies wise up pretty fast to being shot, in most places a 40 yard shot on a rabbit is some masterful stalking and hence the current fashion for 17 HMRs

What range do you zero your .22 with SV ammo for out of interest?

 

[lannyman8]

gents, this is a massive help, and TBH i was thinking the same thing with the bolt action being more accurate, but how do you find this when shooting more than 1 prey animal, as in, shooting along hedge row from cover (vehicle or ground) with bunnies dotted about the place, does the sound of the round effect the other bunnies, i know sub sonic is better for this, but do they scatter or can you get another round off, and what is better in this situation, semi or bolt action?????

a real help though gents,will have a look see at those guns now...

 

[lannyman8]

What range do you zero your .22 with SV ammo for out of interest?

this was going to be a question to ask too,what is a good range to zero at, i will be aiming of for distance so was thinking around 50 m or so???

 

[lannyman8]

If you want to try a couple of .22s Lannyman, you can try ours - both Ruger 10/22s

very kind sir....

will think about that Red, however im away until spring next year, hence the long think....

 

[Camel]

gents, this is a massive help, and TBH i was thinking the same thing with the bolt action being more accurate, but how do you find this when shooting more than 1 prey animal, as in, shooting along hedge row from cover (vehicle or ground) with bunnies dotted about the place, does the sound of the round effect the other bunnies, i know sub sonic is better for this, but do they scatter or can you get another round off, and what is better in this situation, semi or bolt action?????

a real help though gents,will have a look see at those guns now...

With a subsonic you should hear the click of the firing pin and then a much louder crack as the round hits the bunny. It is this crack they hear and with practice you can work the bolt fast enough to merge the two sounds together. A semi-auto is louder at the rifle end as the actions slams back and forward. You must reload immediately after the shot as best practice, you want a round in the chamber in case the first one isn't hit fatally on the first shot. When going for multiples with make sure the first is dead before you move on to the second.

Bunnies react differently to this noise, if they have been shot hard they tend to run but can also sit around blinking at each other for long enough to take quite a few out of a group. It is a good idea to work a group of rabbits away from the cover they want to dive into, so start with the one closest to cover and try and drop him on the spot. The rest will hopefully run further into the field. You can in this way keep them in the field for longer. If they do run it can be worth smoothly tracking them as frequently they will run to or just inside the nearest cover and offer a shot as they turn to look at you. This tends to happen if you are not completely busted but have made them nervous.

If you are shooting in the day they will see movement more than hear you reload so try and shoot from some cover.

At night turn the lamp off between shots and use your dimmer, more important in getting multiples. The very best for for serious pest control is NV, I use the Pulsar on a dedicated CZ varmint with a thumbhole stock. The thumbhole stockmakes for an much better grip offhand and from a quad-bike rest and the heavier barrel helps with the balance on a 14" barrel.

I have a nice old Walther .22RF with bluing miles deep and nice walnut for walks in the afternoon sun but the CZ has had around 7000 rounds through it this year and is the tool that ends up in the mud, rain and blood night after night.

for subs at night I would zero at 50 yards. It would be flat from 5-60 yards which is important as rangefinding at night is hard. For the day you might go up to 70 yards but then you would have to hold under at closer range. Experiment and see depending on what range you are finding your shot opportunities.

 

[santaman2000]

Plus 1 on zeroing at 50 yards (or 50 meters if that's yor unit of measure) However I do need to add that you should do your reliability checks first if you go wiith a semi. I stated that I've never had problems with quality ammo in a 10-22 (but as I said I never use subsonics) but that doesn't guarentee your results. Once you're happy with the reliability of you rifle and ammo combination, then proceed to zero it with THAT ammo.

And don't neglect to zero the iron sights BEFORE you mount the scope.

 

[Camel]

this was going to be a question to ask too,what is a good range to zero at, i will be aiming of for distance so was thinking around 50 m or so???

I think that the best zero for .22 RF is around 50 yards, especially if it's for use at night.

You can get an idea of your drops from that table with the 50 yard zero.

Your limiting factor with a .22, with any long range shooting really, is not how much a bullet drops. You can invest in a range finder and work out the exact distance and hence your exact drop. You could hold over by eye for this, hold over with some sort of ballistic graticule like the mil-dot system, or even dial it in exactly with you turrets.

The problem is the wind, particularly tricky shifting winds from behind you. A wind from 5 or 7 o'clock behind you will result in just under half of the deflection value of a straight crosswind from 3 or 9 o'clock but be very hard to distinguish from a straight 6 o'clock tailwind which will have almost no affect on point of impact.

Therefore the wind affect your maximum range on a given day by limiting the range you can shoot to the point where you think unaccounted for wind deflection will not push the bullet out of the kill zone.

for example say you want to shoot a bunny at 80 yards, no problem aim half way up his ears and you drop it into his brain. figure in a 10mph wind and the round could be blown up to 1.5" inches laterally. This is fine in steady winds, if you can read them that well which I can't, but any shift and you could get a wound. This gets better with experience and you will have your own ideas as time goes on.

With experience out to 70-80 yards, a .22 with subs is a deadly tool.

 

[British Red]

gents, this is a massive help, and TBH i was thinking the same thing with the bolt action being more accurate,

Depends on the semi - mine is more accurate than I am


1022 Snake Ruger Small by British Red, on Flickr

However its hardly a "stock" rifle . There some original parts in it....you can't see them....but they are there!

For a cheap field gun though I'll concur with the consensus - a decent bolt makes a fine field rifle. I'd suggest a CZ 452

For me, in field terms, synthetic furniture is favourite - and stainless barrel if you can get one.