Recommend a kayak?

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Bush Matt

Tenderfoot
Jul 29, 2009
93
0
New Forest
I'm looking to buy a kayak to join a friend for a few daytrips. Looking for an all rounder, will probably be out in the harbour and various rivers, not thinking rapids yet though.

It seems a good idea to buy something really flexible, so I could do an overnighter if I wanted. Spotted a couple on ebay of which the Dagger Approach catches my eye;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dagger-Approa...mQQptZUK_Sporting_Goods_CanoesKayaks_Rafts_SM

Since I know nothing about kayaks does anyone have any advice?

Cheers, matt.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,106
2,833
66
Pembrokeshire
I am not trying to take the micky or anything but for what you say you want the boat for...I would say that an open canoe would fit the bill more :)
Open canoes are easier you fill with your bushy gear, are supurd on easy rivers and for harbour/estuary use.
I have used mine on grade 3 rivers, flat water, lakes, on the sea etc and have done several multi-day trips in Europe and Africa and canoes have been much better than kayaks for the job.
I am a level 4 canoe coach and have taught kayak skills in the past as well and find that for anything other thanwhite water playing in rapids (or lengthy sea trips) canoes win out every time!
 

alecf

Forager
Jun 7, 2009
180
0
Nr Reading
Also, i'd be carefull buying off ebay. I know someone who had a load of slalom kayaks stolen, and sure enough they turned up on ebay a few weeks later. Depending on whereabouts in london you are, theres a good canoe/kayak shop at shepperton marina.
http://www.whitewaterthecanoecentre.co.uk/ - Don't be fooled by the name, they do most of everything, and I know a few of the chaps in there and they are most knowledgeable!
 

Nonsuch

Life Member
Sep 19, 2008
1,862
1
Scotland, looking at mountains
Another vote for an open canoe, especially for overnighters / canoe-camping as you suggest. You won't get much bushcraft gear in a kayak.

Huge overlap on here between bushcrafters and open canoeists.

Sorry if you've already discounted the idea !

NS
 

waterman

Member
Nov 1, 2009
27
0
twickenham
Had open canoe for years and yes they will take a huge amount of gear but many of my friends tour with kayaks. They are skilled at taking minimal gear and travelling in relative comfort. I have sold my open canoe in favour of a easky 13 kayak. It has 2 storage hatches which will take a fair amount of gear and the deck can carry more in dry bags. What made me sell the open was finding it more difficult to handle as I got older ( I always paddled solo)and my increasing desire to explore more estuary and coastal waters. The open while capable of coastal touring in good weather is vunerable to wind and being open taking water in rough seas. There are many cheap plastic touring boats very suitable for your needs. There are even compromise craft like the perception kiwi, open boat paddled like a kayak with good storage and fair ability on coastal water. Dont be afraid to by a second hand tourer from Ebay, if you dont like it, sell it again. Most good canoe shops will let you try out their boats .Most important is you get on the water in something and enjoy yourself.
 

JohnL

Forager
Nov 20, 2007
136
0
West Sussex
I would recomend you get some basic instruction before buying a boat, prefurably in a few different styles of boat. As some here have pointed out, an open canoe is more "bushy" than a kayak, but a kayak takes up less space & is easier to manoever. I personal dont really like the dagger approaches, they are quite short which means they do not track that well in a strait line, the skegs feel a bit flimsy, & the plastic is very soft imho,(as I found out when I took one "burn bashing"). I would get a plastic sea kayak, fast, tracks well in a strait line & can be loaded with mountains of gear.

but really, it depends what style of paddling you see yourself getting in to.
 

rancid badger

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'm looking to buy a kayak to join a friend for a few daytrips. Looking for an all rounder, will probably be out in the harbour and various rivers, not thinking rapids yet though.

It seems a good idea to buy something really flexible, so I could do an overnighter if I wanted. Spotted a couple on ebay of which the Dagger Approach catches my eye;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dagger-Approa...mQQptZUK_Sporting_Goods_CanoesKayaks_Rafts_SM

Since I know nothing about kayaks does anyone have any advice?

Cheers, matt.[/QUOTE

Frankly; I'd advise avoiding a kayak for what you seem to want to do, John's right;)

If you have never paddled before, you could buy a boat and find any number of issues to put you off; from comfort levels, to "tippyness" and all points between.

Try a couple first, both open and kayaks, then go from there.


atb

R.B.
 

1972

Forager
Jun 16, 2008
146
0
North East
Hi Matt,

I've got a dagger RPM which is an all round river boat and is great for what it is although I would struggle to take any real kit with me and if I fancied an over nighter I would only have my buoyancy aid to keep me warm! I like the look of the dagger approach you've posted but I would echo what the other guys have said, You would only be able to store minimal kit in it and it strikes me as a bit of a jack of all trades and master of none (although I do like it!).

Having said all this if you have mates that kayak then this could be a good compromise between size and storage. I think you would be able to do an over nighter with it but you would be carrying minimal gear, where it would work well though is if you wanted to carry a stove and some other bits on a day trip.

ATB
 
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I've done a fair bit of canoeing and kayaking in my time. I'm no expert just a guy with loads of gear traveling by whatever means I can to get to some wild places. I own a dagger reflection canoe which has been paddled in whitewater grade 3+ and I've done some epic trips in the sea in big winds and waves. I've also got a Perception vista expedition kitted out (hatches and bulkheads and custom spraydeck).
5cc82161.jpg


The Kayak which in this case has the advantages of a canoe (large open cockpit, loads of storage space) with the advantages of a kayak (highly stable-more than a canoe, extremely fast and very comfortable and safer than a canoe when paddled solo).

Don't get me wrong, I love my canoe but for SERIOUS solo (I mean one boat trips), the double touring kayak has no contender. It's as simple as that. I can solo tour the coast, big open water, even rivers in my kayak, all quicker, safer, and in more comfort with a HUGE carrying capacity. BUT it's heavy and awkward to manhandle solo unless you can unload relatively close to he water. You can't portage it like a canoe unless you have a trolley.
If you are in Scotland and you want to try mine, by all means you can come and give it a go.
 

Bush Matt

Tenderfoot
Jul 29, 2009
93
0
New Forest
Thanks for the info!

This will be my first foray into canoes/kayaks for years so no real idea where it will go. Happy to get a kayak for a bit of fun and I reckon it may be a little easier to transport and lend out than a canoe - my family have allready signed up to borrow it whilst I'm away. Will try to get down to a shop before I make any decision though. At this rate the landrover is going to look like a watersports school truck, I kitesurf/surf and will hopefully add windsurfing kit and maybe diving this year.

I can certainly see the appeal of the open canoes for bushcrafting and the Yostwerks kayaks look like an awesome project. My guess is that this year it will be more day trips to Brownsea island than proper overnighters though.

Cheers all, Matt.
 

al21

Nomad
Aug 11, 2006
320
0
In a boat somewhere
I'd have to add my name to the 'get a canoe instead' group. Particularly if you've got family as you can pile a bunch of folks in or paddle them solo. Much easier to portage than a kayak too.

I've had my 17' canoe for over twenty years now and it's been paddled, poled, sailed and portaged over miles and miles. We've had five in for messing about, but I can paddle it solo too. I will say that while I have done my share of paddling on the sea I'm at my least comfortable there, but then I'd rather be in my sailing dinghy for that.

If you plan to do most of your paddling on the sea then a sea kayak is probably going to be the best option, but they're not the alrounder you asked for.

What does your mate have?

That's my tuppence ha'penny for you.

What ever you do though, get yourself a boat of some sort as there's nowt better. :)

Al
 

waterman

Member
Nov 1, 2009
27
0
twickenham
Day trips to brownsea island needs a kayak unless you get some serious experience under your belt canoing in open water. I have done this trip in a kayak and can recommend it as a great paddle. Do it from Studland in an open but will need to be very careful of wind speeds and tide times. Do it from Rockley area then stick to kayak.
 

CRAZY FROG

Forager
Aug 9, 2007
170
0
essex
I'm looking to buy a kayak to join a friend for a few daytrips. Looking for an all rounder, will probably be out in the harbour and various rivers, not thinking rapids yet though.

It seems a good idea to buy something really flexible, so I could do an overnighter if I wanted. Spotted a couple on ebay of which the Dagger Approach catches my eye;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dagger-Approa...mQQptZUK_Sporting_Goods_CanoesKayaks_Rafts_SM

Since I know nothing about kayaks does anyone have any advice?

Cheers, matt.

I would recommend a open canoe over a kayak for the type trips that your thinking of, you have the option of doing day trips through to extended trips of over a month or more when you have expierience & knowledge on the shorter trips
 
I still like the look of those Perceptions. They don't look far removed from the lines of the wee MacGregor and I've been loving that.

Apart from being more difficult to portage than a canoe (when you don't have a trolley), they are better than a solo kayak or canoe. They are just far more safe, stable and seaworthy than a canoe. They are faster too. A wee tip though, if you want a lighter but similar model, that is more easy to carry solo, dagger do a copy.

Both can carry loads of gear but the perception vista will go places only sea kayaks usually go and the vista can carry more gear than a dagger and a sea kayak. So even two folk can take gear for a week or so.:D

I llike your wee wooden one it's pretty cool. Very seaworthy looking. I like your blogs too bud...very interesting and great reading. No doub't we'll bump into each other somewhere out on the big blue under a big sky bud. :)

 

Bush Matt

Tenderfoot
Jul 29, 2009
93
0
New Forest
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I have bought a second hand Perception Acadia in the end.

kayak.jpg


http://www.perception.co.uk/kayak-details.php?boat=3

Choosen this one for its size - 12' able to carry 180kg inclucing 100kg of me. Feels very stable in the water. Solid build - much more than the dagger which someone commented on earlier - and reasonable storage to do a day trip.

The one thing I didn't think about is the size of my front door in London. A classic moment when I realised it wasn't going through no matter what angle I went for! Hence the photo in the lounge - went in through the window!

Cheers all, matt.
 

1972

Forager
Jun 16, 2008
146
0
North East
That looks like a good choice to me.

I think I may have to take a look at one of those. I like the fact that you can carry a bit of gear on the top. As for not being able to get it through the front door I wouldnt worry, just leave it outside im sure it'll be fine in london :lmao:

ATB
 
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bisto

Need to contact Admin...
definitly shoulda got a sit on top kayak, loads of storage and very stable.

for touring and overnighters they do a fine fine job. plus if you capsize you wont lose all your gear.

theyre the best all rounder by a long way. for speed ,versatility,storage and user friendliness.

they make open canoes and sit in kayaks redundant !!!

look up the ocean kayak range,my owns an elite 4.5 ,even has a sail for windy days.
 

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