Reasons for carrying a knife (in the UK).......

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Goose

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Aug 5, 2004
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Pappa said:
I wonder what reason was given to tell someone NOT to wear PPE? And I wonder how they would stand if an incident occured at school, first question asked is "what could have been done to avoid this?"

PS, I am not commenting so much about him wearing a vest or the reasons he feels he needs to, more about him being told to take it off.
 

gregorach

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 15, 2005
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Wow - there's been some shenanigans in this thread since I last looked in... I'd just like to comment on one point:

Martyn said:
The carring of a knife for self defence, is considered pre emptive. You are planning to get into a knife fight and are going armed.

The carrying of a knife for self-defense is also terminally stupid. Knives are not defensive weapons. Pull an knife out in a fight and somebody's going to get badly hurt, but unless you're a skilled martial artist it's anybody's guess who it will be. And if you are a skilled martial artist, then you don't need the knife anyway. Do not ever, under any circumstances short of immediate and certain death, even consider trying to use a knife for "self defense".

You want to carry something to defend yourself from knife wielding maniacs? Try running shoes.
 
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gregorach

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Sep 15, 2005
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Goose said:
I wonder what reason was given to tell someone NOT to wear PPE? And I wonder how they would stand if an incident occured at school, first question asked is "what could have been done to avoid this?"

PS, I am not commenting so much about him wearing a vest or the reasons he feels he needs to, more about him being told to take it off.

Well, knowing kids, it'd be only a matter of time before someone decided to find out just how stab-proof it really is. That sort of thing's like a red rag to a bull with some kids.

Heck, with enough kids wearing them, I'm sure they'd make a game of it.
 

jamesraykenney

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Aug 16, 2004
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Mantic said:
I must admit that I was so surprised by his outburst that I did a little research (I was also thinking that someone had hijacked his account). However, if you look at his other comments / threads you'll see his style throughout them all. Take a peek over at British Blades and you'll see how long he lasted there. One of the funniest / saddest things I've seen in a while :) :(

Regarding your other posts, very interesting indeed. I've lived in the States (a while back now) and have done a fair amount of shooting there too. Last time I was in Florida I completely forgot that I had my lock-knife on me when I went to Magic Kingdom in Florida. Since they check everyone for 'weapons' (including knives), and rather than risk detection, I had to walk the 1/2 mile back to the car, deposit my knife and then wander back into the park. Your rules have changed somewhat as well over the years and it's all been since 9/11.

The funny thing is that in Florida, Balisongs(Butterfly Knives) are legal(If I remember correctly) while in most of the country they are considered Switchblades, and may be OWNED, but not carried...

In a lot of places, going armed is MORE acceptable since 9/11... But it depends on where you are...
Airplanes got crazy for a while, but they are THINKING about allowing more items on board planes now...
People know that no one will EVER be able to hijack a plane without AT LEAST a gun anymore, because people have the feeling that to submit, is to die, along with possibly thousands more...
There have been cases where someone got drunk and disorderly on board a plane and got attacked:twak: by the other passengers! :eek: So I do not think that the bans on carry on items does much good.

I THINK the Magic Kingdom in Florida has had restrictions on what you could bring in for quite a while... Though I have problems believing that they had them while Disney himself was alive... Thought I could be completely wrong, because that guy was kind of STRANGE...
 

jamesraykenney

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Aug 16, 2004
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Lurch said:
Well you'd think so wouldn't you.
Boy told to remove stabproof vest

Irony being that the copper that told him to remove the vest was almost certainly wearing one himself.

He added that in consultation with the school "the officer told the pupil to remove the vest".

If that is true, and the kid get killed, both the officer and the school should be both sued and charged with accessory before the fact(if you have that crime there)! :soapbox:
 

Martyn

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Aug 7, 2003
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jamesraykenney said:
It was just that, from all the hoopla that your press and government is making about knife attacks, we get the impression that you cannot walk down the street in London without getting attacked...
It is amazing how violent the UK seems from listening to OUR media(they must just be repeating YOUR media's exaggerations).

Very likely.

The problem is, there have been some high profile stabbings recently. Teachers getting stabbed by pupils and teenagers stabbing each other. On my stats search, I think I read that 50% of knife crime victims were aged between 14 and 17 years old. This is worrying, we dont want our children either doing this or being placed at risk by this. The media picks up the story and it's everywhere. It sells column inches so the papers run with it. Responsible reporting of the facts, doesnt sell as many papers as sensationalist overstating of the facts. It becomes a case of not so much reporting the news as creating the news. People read the papers and become worried, they press their politicians for action to deal with the "epidemic" and laws get passed. It becomes government by an irresponsible fleet street, who's sole concern is selling papers.

Also, as knife and gun crime are such rare events in the UK, every incident gets tons of press coverage. I would think in the US, domestic gun crime doesnt draw so much media attention, because it's more of an everyday event.

But I can certainly understand how looking at the Uk from abroad, you could be forgiven for thinking things were out of control. After all, for a national knife amnesty to be held, there must be a huge problem - right? ;)
 

Pappa

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Lurch said:
Sorry, for the hard of thinking (i.e. me!) can you clarify what the difference is between the two articles? I can't see any different spin other than the lack of reference to the copper telling the lad to take off the vest.

Sorry, I think my skim reading gave me a skewed idea:
"The threats related to incidents that happened outside this school. Senior staff were advised by the police and one of our students was given permission to wear the body armour underneath his uniform on journeys to and from school."
I was thinking that this suggested the police had advised the school to let the boy wear it outside school, but really its just the police advising the school of what was going on.

Not that I think wearing a stab vest is a good idea, but I did wonder what right a school has to dictate what a child wears under their uniform.
 

jamesraykenney

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Aug 16, 2004
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Martyn said:
Very likely.

The problem is, there have been some high profile stabbings recently. Teachers getting stabbed by pupils and teenagers stabbing each other. On my stats search, I think I read that 50% of knife crime victims were aged between 14 and 17 years old. This is worrying, we dont want our children either doing this or being placed at risk by this. The media picks up the story and it's everywhere. It sells column inches so the papers run with it. Responsible reporting of the facts, doesnt sell as many papers as sensationalist overstating of the facts. It becomes a case of not so much reporting the news as creating the news. People read the papers and become worried, they press their politicians for action to deal with the "epidemic" and laws get passed. It becomes government by an irresponsible fleet street, who's sole concern is selling papers.

Also, as knife and gun crime are such rare events in the UK, every incident gets tons of press coverage. I would think in the US, domestic gun crime doesnt draw so much media attention, because it's more of an everyday event.

But I can certainly understand how looking at the Uk from abroad, you could be forgiven for thinking things were out of control. After all, for a national knife amnesty to be held, there must be a huge problem - right? ;)

It is also usually not mentioned that MOST of the gun crime in the US is confined to a small number of inner city areas and gang gathering places... If all the victims of gun crime that were INVOLVED in crime THEMSELVES were taken out of the statistics, I would bet that our crime rate would be a LOT closer to the rest of the world...

Just an interesting fact... Did you know that in Japan, 'Family Suicides' are not classified as murders? Do you know what a 'Family Suicide' IS??? It is when a father kills his ENTIRE family and then kills himself(what we call a murder/suicide here in the states). This is apparently a VERY common thing in Japan but because it has been 'defined out' of the statistics, you would never know it...
 

Martyn

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jamesraykenney said:
If all the victims of gun crime that were INVOLVED in crime THEMSELVES were taken out of the statistics, I would bet that our crime rate would be a LOT closer to the rest of the world.....

That's where the change is in the UK, and possibly part of the reason for the explosion in press coverage. In the past, the stabbing victims have been drug dealers pimps and gang members, who themselves are usually involved in some kind of violent crime. I think such crimes are genrally considered to be a sort of natural selection. But recently, the victims have been kids, teachers and police officers. We "mind" a lot more about them.
 

Pappa

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Martyn said:
But recently, the victims have been kids, teachers and police officers. We "mind" a lot more about them.

I don't think that's really a true reflection of reality, just the way it's portrayed in the press at the moment. A couple of years ago it was paedophiles; a while before that it was dangerous dogs. There aren't more kids, teachers and police actually being stabbed. The press have just latched on to the fact that they are the stories that sell papers at the moment. If it was true, logically it would follow that proportionally less pimps, gangsters and dealers are getting stabbed; which is unlikely to be the case.

Pappa
 

Naruska

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Apr 15, 2006
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Earlier on in the thread when I pointed out that Finland was one of the most violent countries in western europe...

There were some stats earlier on with 62 gun episodes/400-500 knife episodes per year with a population of 58 million...

We have more than that....population being just over 5 million... :confused:

The attitude towards weapons is still much more relaxed... :confused:

I think it probably still has to do with the attitude that the forementioned items are still considered tools over here...

The law however, seems more lenient toward some gentleman who is keen on parking his blade on your person...if by chance, you were to plant a bullet on this gentleman`s person or to remove his teeth by accident, you would be obliged to compensate at least the dental bills or the equivalent... :)

marko
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
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Pappa said:
Not that I think wearing a stab vest is a good idea, but I did wonder what right a school has to dictate what a child wears under their uniform.

How did they check in the first place?

And how do they confirm everyday?

I wonder if Claims Direct have rung the parents in advance.
 

Mantic

Nomad
May 9, 2006
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UK
Once again, this is all about perception. What if the lad wore a full body armour motorcycle jacket? The strategic padding they have is considerable - maybe not enough to stop a determined knife attacker but even so....
 
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