(rant) not allowed to light fire in my own garden

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Rebel

Native
Jun 12, 2005
1,052
6
Hertfordshire (UK)
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAnd...eetcleaninglitterandillegaldumping/DG_4018684


So apparently there is no "Law" but other systems in place. I guess it also depends how big a fire you are going to light, a catering sized tin with a few twigs in can't really be called a bonfire, and is quickly and easily extinguished once lit.

Wings :)

As you quoted there are no direct laws against the lighting of bonfires. I looked into this when I was doing my Countryside Management course ('cos I wanted to light some large bonfires :D).

I can't remember all the details now but basically you can get away with it if there aren't any complaints. You just have to use common sense about how big your fire is, which way the wind is blowing and who is likely to complain and why. If it's just some snooty neighbour who isn't really being inconvenienced and it's only an occasional fire then the police or environment agency will probably just let it go.

However there are some laws about smoke blowing onto roads that you need to be aware of.
 

malente

Life member
Jan 14, 2007
894
2
Germany
Get yourself one of those gardens that you have to travel to, I'm pretty sure you can burn stuff there. (It's a german thing for those who don't know, a lot of people live in a flat and have a garden on the outskirts of town that they can visit with those rather grand looking Bavarian styled summer houses, or as we would call it a shed!)

Oooh A "Schrebergarten" (allotment). I'm afraid the rules and regs there are even worse - they are always organised as Vereine (associations) and these types are reeeealy fastidious regarding every single aspect of *their* little world. You can't even fart without having to have accriditation.

Red, of course there are - if you have kids... Luckily we live right at the boundary of the village - with fields and woodlands right at our doorstep. There's even an animal shelter with Alpacas, Goats, lots of birds and even some deer not 5 mins from us. So I hope to raise my kids with apreciation and respect for the natural world.
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I lit a small fire on my backyard during yule. It was at night, it too cold for anyone to sensibly have their washing out. I admit it smoked it bit because the wood that was added to the fire was frozen damp, and the cold still air had held it down. Well someone called the fire brigade. They tried to tell me off, saying I had left the fire unattended because I standing at the back door. They said I should have bucket of water by the fire to which I then pointed to a bucket of icey water that caught the the drips off the broken guttering and to the garden hose. He then said it was too close to the nieghbours house to which I pointed out the snow between the fire the wall hadn't melted. I was then told if there was any more incidences I would risk a fine. He did say at the end of the b*****ing the fire looked uncontrol. They left, and I haven't dared have a fire since. So much for a free country.

I can have fires on the allotment more easly, but there are limits. Does anyone know how to burn a massive pile of privet cutting without smoking out whole hillside?
 
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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
There's a pro?

Yeah, folks are welcoming up here :D
Seriously, every advantage of modern life and the countryside is on our doorsteps.

Family and friends close by, main water mains and drains, electricity, gas and cable to every front door, doctor, dentist, libraries, shops, hospitals, fire and police services all just minutes away.
We call it home, just like you do.

cheers,
Toddy
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,709
1,947
Mercia
Yeah, folks are welcoming up here :D
Seriously, every advantage of modern life and the countryside is on our doorsteps.

Family and friends close by, main water mains and drains, electricity, gas and cable to every front door, doctor, dentist, libraries, shops, hospitals, fire and police services all just minutes away.
We call it home, just like you do.

cheers,
Toddy
Pass ta

I like my family and friends staying a few days, private water and private drains (got some great photos of the new ones going in if you like ;)), my gas comes in tanks, my doctor knows me by name and my library delivers :D

Oh - and my neighbour grows his own hops and has a beer engine in the hall of his house too!

Red
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Different folks, but on the whole people get on fine.

My elderly relations live about three minutes brisk walk away; it's normal for the Doc and the Dentist to know our names, we went to school with them, and their kids with ours; the library is ten minutes away, a nice wee dauner up the Main Street; if something goes wrong with the mains or drains it's fixed in a couple of hours......and there's a lot of local brewing around :D. Last years peapod wine was surprisingly good. Home grown, organic, and very tasty the peas were too :)
It's no Brigadoon, it's a thriving, active community.
I have no wish to live in isolation anywhere, or in some chilly rural idyll with a septic tank and a bomb beside the house. Open fires are lovely, when you don't *have* to clean them, feed them, rely only on them; been there, done that, not sorry I don't need to wake to a cold house, go to work and come home to a cold one and have to clean out and start the fire, every day in life, anymore.
Fun's fun, but drudgery gets old very quickly.
I would like a slightly bigger garden though.
Don't think I could settle in a city, just too big for me; it's impossible to know all the folks around you there; definitely Scotland's small towns that feel like home to me.

cheers,
Toddy
 

jonajuna

Banned
Jul 12, 2008
701
1
s
I lit a small fire on my backyard during yule. It was at night, it too cold for anyone to sensibly have their washing out. I admit it smoked it bit because the wood that was added to the fire was frozen damp, and the cold still air had held it down. Well someone called the fire brigade. They tried to tell me off, saying I had left the fire unattended because I standing at the back door. They said I should have bucket of water by the fire to which I then pointed to a bucket of icey water that caught the the drips off the broken guttering and to the garden hose. He then said it was too close to the nieghbours house to which I pointed out the snow between the fire the wall hadn't melted. I was then told if there was any more incidences I would risk a fine. He did say at the end of the b*****ing the fire looked uncontrol. They left, and I haven't dared have a fire since. So much for a free country.


some fire officers think they are Judge dread, heard similar before.

politely say "go away and leave my private premises, you have no right of entry, no ability to enforce anything as these are domestic premises not commercial" point out to them, "That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegall and void. UK Bill of Rights, 1688"

in other words, the fire brigade have no powers against you in your home and NO_ONE in this country has the ability to impose a fine against you without you having the right to be tried first in court

you will not be acting illegally, you will be acting within your rights. if the FB want to try and take you to court (although for what?) im sure the CPS will be having a word with them about wasting public resources and "the wider public interest"

sounds like you had a jobsworth that was making up for a small appendage by trying to (and succeeding) scare you



Power to the people and the MAN (and woman) right to burn wood!

lol
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Jonajuna have you heard of this strange concept we have in this country ?
It's called Byelaws.

Personally I have no issues with Xylaria having a wee fire in her garden, more power to her, I'd happily join her, but you cannot refuse entry to the firebrigade just because you don't want them to deal with a reported issue.
That lands you in breach of the peace. That becomes a police matter and as a social nuisance you rapidly become a pain in the neck to your neighbours. You know them? the folks who keep an eye on your house when you're on holiday, take in parcels when you're out, keep in touch with the world around you when you bump into them for a quick blether.

Society exists because it suits most people. Whether that society is four or five people or four or five hundred is irrelevant.
No man is an island and all that. We all have to get along on our kind of overcrowded one.

Toddy
 

EdS

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
some fire officers think they are Judge dread, heard similar before.

politely say "go away and leave my private premises, you have no right of entry, no ability to enforce anything as these are domestic premises not commercial" point out to them, "That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegall and void. UK Bill of Rights, 1688"

in other words, the fire brigade have no powers against you in your home and NO_ONE in this country has the ability to impose a fine against you without you having the right to be tried first in court

you will not be acting illegally, you will be acting within your rights. if the FB want to try and take you to court (although for what?) im sure the CPS will be having a word with them about wasting public resources and "the wider public interest"

sounds like you had a jobsworth that was making up for a small appendage by trying to (and succeeding) scare you



Power to the people and the MAN (and woman) right to burn wood!

lol

Unfortunately not so. THe whole Bill of Rights thing is a can of worms - to be be argued here- but yes you can be fined.

The Fire Brigade may serve and abate for dangerous fires or unattended fires under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. The offences is not the fire itself but not coml;ing wuth teh Notice.

Similarly and more likely if upsetting neighbours would be Env Health serving a EPA 1990 s80 Noitce for Statutory Nuisance, agian it is the breaking of the notice not the fire itself that is the criminal offence.

So you are not been fined "out of the blue" but have been fomal wqrned and given the chance to stop.
 

badgeringtim

Nomad
May 26, 2008
480
0
cambridge
This is one i have to say i can see both sides for.
I used to live in a terraced area with all gardens and houses close together, I was very carefull to have fires when peoples washing and windows were not likely to be out or open and never got into any bother. Even took advantage of it being bonfire night and did a couple of charcoal burns (ok inviting the nearest neighbours probably helped).
But if it was our right to be able to do it when people burn large amounts of conifer or leaves and have smoke pluming out onto the local roads (like i saw on sunday) and I came through the other side spluttering, this would be ok which it clearly isnt. I was annoyed with them mainly becuse it gives the rest of us, that have sensible fires a bad name, and makes it harder cos im sure he must have annoyed people.

It does seem to be a confused area though, and essentially if no one complains your ok, so try not to do anything to make people complain?
 

Bumpy

Forager
Apr 18, 2008
199
0
56
West Yorkshire
Sometimes I forget how lucky I am! Since having a woodburner installed I have less outdoor fires in my garden than I used to. But when I do have one my male neighbours appear, note that I am having a fire and then bring more things for me to burn that they have been squirrelling away in a corner of their gardens. Then we stand around the bonfire and appreciate it:D
Everyone is happy!
 

kevm65

Member
Jan 26, 2010
15
0
Germany
quite true about the BBQ issue, however to make a fire in your garden you do need to get permission. praise that i live next to the army ranges and can do what i like (No neighbors to disturb)
 

shaneh

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
333
33
50
Colchester
Am I right in saying you cant wash your car on a Sunday in Germany, and something about hanging washing out too. I was based over there for three years and everything we did was regulated in some manor or other...

You DO have a lot of PLUSSES though, Your roads and autobahns work a lot better, especially your traffic lights at night! No roundabouts! and your forests and woods cant be matched over here...
 

jonnno

Forager
Mar 19, 2009
223
0
50
Belfast
I assumed that in a smokeless zone you could only burn certain fuels and required a chimney over a certain height and that when I lit my garden burner I was in clear breach of the law and just didn't give a toss ;)

That said, I appreciate peoples right to sit in their garden without acrid smoke blowing over the hedge so I'll maybe show some more restraint in the future, although I largely light it at night and, lets be honest, the music is going to be more annoying. Plus the house across the street has an indoor fire going all year in which, judging by the smell, they burn old tyres!
 

malente

Life member
Jan 14, 2007
894
2
Germany
Am I right in saying you cant wash your car on a Sunday in Germany, and something about hanging washing out too. I was based over there for three years and everything we did was regulated in some manor or other...

You DO have a lot of PLUSSES though, Your roads and autobahns work a lot better, especially your traffic lights at night! No roundabouts! and your forests and woods cant be matched over here...

You're absolutely right, everything is regulated, that is frustrating. Although car wash seems to be a point of civil resistance ;) You must have been in the more catholic parts.

I also agree with you regarding roads, although with Autobahns it depends where you are. In the UK the roadworks are done quickly and when no one is driving (like evenings, nights) which is fantastic (admitted, more dangerous for the workers), but in Germany it's only 9-5 and in the summer months. There are always roadworks on the Autobahns, for years!

As for the forests, true they are really big, versatile and beautiful, but REGULATED. You can't even fart without being in fear of breaching some regulation, or so is my impression. Most everything is either privately owned or some form of national park, so bushcraft-wise not so good...

In any case, I lit an ash fire two days ago, showing my son, who just turned three, his first camp fire. I lit it in the BBQ, and then when it burnt down to the coals we put slices of salami on and he was hooked! He loved it! Yesterday he asked me if we could make another fire and eat more salami :) It was late afternoon with no wind, and the ash smoke smelled lovely.
 

jonnno

Forager
Mar 19, 2009
223
0
50
Belfast
If you could breach a law by farting I'd be doing hard time with no chance of parole by now :D

You're absolutely right, everything is regulated, that is frustrating. Although car wash seems to be a point of civil resistance ;) You must have been in the more catholic parts.

I also agree with you regarding roads, although with Autobahns it depends where you are. In the UK the roadworks are done quickly and when no one is driving (like evenings, nights) which is fantastic (admitted, more dangerous for the workers), but in Germany it's only 9-5 and in the summer months. There are always roadworks on the Autobahns, for years!

As for the forests, true they are really big, versatile and beautiful, but REGULATED. You can't even fart without being in fear of breaching some regulation, or so is my impression. Most everything is either privately owned or some form of national park, so bushcraft-wise not so good...

In any case, I lit an ash fire two days ago, showing my son, who just turned three, his first camp fire. I lit it in the BBQ, and then when it burnt down to the coals we put slices of salami on and he was hooked! He loved it! Yesterday he asked me if we could make another fire and eat more salami :) It was late afternoon with no wind, and the ash smoke smelled lovely.
 

shaneh

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
333
33
50
Colchester
I see your right on the border with Denmark, ish, Surely they have the right to roam?
You could just nip over the border for some camping?

No

I was in Münster not too far away from you, in the big picture...
 

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