potassium

[ateallthepies]

I bought some crystals in a small jar from a local chemists the other week.

From reading Lofty wisemans SAS guide, I take it this stuff is not to be used to treat water for consumption but to sterilize it for other uses such as wound/fungal treatments???????????????????


Steve?

 

[lannyman8]

I bought some crystals in a small jar from a local chemists the other week.

From reading Lofty wisemans SAS guide, I take it this stuff is not to be used to treat water for consumption but to sterilize it for other uses such as wound/fungal treatments???????????????????


Steve?

Hi Steve, it can be used to treat water for drinking but reading on the internet its not as effective as clorine.. all you do is add 2 or 3 crystals to a litre of water untill its a very light pink colour, add a half dozen to a mug full of water to treating feat problems and 20+ to clean wounds, a dark purple colour, be carefull though because it stains hands and worktops...

it works the same as iodine on wounds and when diluted for feat problems the same, so it must work the same on treating water for drinking...

anyway, hope that helps...

chris...

 

[ateallthepies]

Wow, 2 or 3 crystals is virtually nothing! Must be strong stuff?

Steve.

 

[lannyman8]

when i looked on the tinterweb it said it was not used as treatment for water other than removing tastes etc from the clorine, it was said to be an inferia product compared to clorine, maybe its just due to the colour or ammount needed compared to others, then price becomes an issue...

i have never used it for treating water but have used it for wounds, infact used it on the dog the other day when he cut his pad open... poor boy...

 

[santaman2000]

Pretty much everything is inferior when compared to chlorine though. Chlorine kills over 99.99% of ALL know bacteria.

 

[lannyman8]

Santaman2000 any ideas how effective PP is on water for drinking??????

 

[youngbushcrafter]

I have some and keep it in my survival tin wrapped in cling-film because it is so versatile, i would trust it with purifying water because like everything apart from boiling, you can never be 100% sure

 

[ateallthepies]

Pretty much everything is inferior when compared to chlorine though. Chlorine kills over 99.99% of ALL know bacteria.

How does it fair with viruses, protozoa and cysts? Are you thinking about Chlorine Dioxide or plain old Chlorine?

Steve.

 

[gliderrider]

I still have some of the old Rat Pack puritabs, just add one to a ltr after its boiled & filtered (through a shemag, I still need to get round to finding my millbank bag), I remember the Lofty wiseman book mentioned something that turned the water pink, but cant remember if that was potasium or something else.

 

[lannyman8]

How does it fair with viruses, protozoa and cysts? Are you thinking about Chlorine Dioxide or plain old Chlorine?

Steve.

it did not state which one, im thinking of clori tabs though, presume its the same stuff used in water works....

not sure how effective PP is on anything in a weak dose, if i had nothing else id use it and maybe boil if i could too, but then why use it if your going to boil anyway, which will kill all pathogens, its then just heavy metals and chemicals you need to worry about, that nearly always depends on the area though..

 

[ateallthepies]

Looks like Thames water use just Chlorine. I was under the impression that Chlorine did not work on some things like Crypto so I wonder how they get round this? Chlorine Dioxide I believe does kill everything and I'm sure I read some American water treatment plants are now using it?

As for the Potassium Permanganate it is very hard finding reliable facts on this on the net. Most info is for stuff like fish ponds.

Looking in my sas guide the bit on PP is under the medical kit section and reads... Add to water and mix until water becomes bright pink to sterilize it, deeper pink to make an antiseptic and to a full red to treat fungal diseases such as athletes foot.

From this I was uncertain if it was meant for consumption or just to make the water safe for medical uses such as washing out wounds?

Steve.

 

[lannyman8]

hhmmmm, i might try it and see if i die... well bad belly anyway...

 

[santaman2000]

Santaman2000 any ideas how effective PP is on water for drinking??????

No. I really don't know. Sorry.

 

[santaman2000]

Looks like Thames water use just Chlorine. I was under the impression that Chlorine did not work on some things like Crypto so I wonder how they get round this? Chlorine Dioxide I believe does kill everything and I'm sure I read some American water treatment plants are now using it?...

TBH I don't know what the treatment plants are using over here (chlorine yes, but what type?)

My info comes from a few sources FEMA and Red Cross literature for treating questionable water after floods, hurricanes, etc. (their recommendation is to add 2 or 3 drops per gallon of water for consumption) and from sanitation requirements for certain facilities (restaurants, cafeterias, mortuaries, etc.) The recommendation for using as as sanitizing agent is a 50-50 mix. Their data is for common household bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite) Obviously you would need to only use the plain bleach (no phosphorous or scents added)

I only know for sure about how it does for bacteria, that's why I didn't say anything about viruses, etc. It may work for them as well; I just don't know.

 

[Tadpole]

have a search on BCUK for "The Science of Water " By British Red, it covers all based with a useful and easy to follow guide

 

[richtheclimber]

Well folks, at the risk of plugging my website in a most blatant fashion, it IS available in 25g jars, very cheaply indeed.

The trick is to pour the tiniest drop of glycerine you can manage (it's very thick, so you tend to get a massive dollop!), then cover the liquid with liberal amounts of the potassium permanganate. Agitating it works best, either by mixing together with a twig, or by rubbing it (if you're using newspaper as tinder). The reaction is generally not very fast, so be patient - several minutes is the norm in my experience. Once it starts to happen, it's very quick.

It IS quite tricky to get hold of, because it's not only used in home bomb making, but it's also one of the prime ingredients in the manufacture of crystal meth. So I sincerely hope that the Bizzies don't pay me a visit, with my spare bedroom stocked high with knices, axes and enough potassium permanganate to put a small South American country out of business....

 

[wingstoo]

http://www.potassium-permanganate-online.com/how-to-order.html?gclid=CPGXidLizawCFQkLfAodemc4rw

Just bought 100g for £6, paid with paypal

 

[lannyman8]

i have PM'd British Red to ask what he knows about its propperties on water, if or when i get results i will pass them onto this thread...

regards.

chris.

 

[Tadpole]

The-Science-of-Water British Red

 

[lannyman8]

5.4.3.1 Bacteria Inactivation
High dosage rates were required to accomplish complete inactivation of bacteria in three studies.
Early research showed that a dose of 2.5 mg/L was required for complete inactivation of coliform
bacteria (Le Strat, 1944). In this study, water from the Marne River was dosed with potassium
permanganate at concentrations of 0 to 2.5 mg/L. Following mixing, the samples were placed in a
darkened room for 2 hours at a constant temperature of 19.8oC.
Banerjea (1950) investigated the disinfectant ability of potassium permanganate on several
waterborne pathogenic microorganisms. The investigation studied Vibrio cholerae, Salm. typhi, and
Bact. flexner. The results indicated that doses of 20 mg/L and contact times of 24 hours were
necessary to deactivate these pathogens; however, even under these conditions the complete absence
of Salm. typhi or Bact. flexner was not assured, even at a potassium permanganate concentration that
turned the water an objectionable pink color.
Results from a study conducted in 1976 at the Las Vegas Valley Water District/Southern Nevada
System of Lake Mead water showed that complete removal of coliform bacteria were accomplished
at doses of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 mg/L (Hazen and Sawyer, 1992). Contact times of 30 minutes were
provided with doses of 1 and 2 mg/L, and 10 minutes contact times were provided for higher dosages
in this study.
5.4.3.2 Virus Inactivation
Potassium permanganate has been proven effective against certain viruses. A dose of 50 mg/L of
potassium permanganate and a contact time of 2 hours was required for inactivation of poliovirus
(strain MVA) (Hazen and Sawyer, 1992). A “potassium” permanganate dose of 5.0 mg/L and a
contact time of 33 minutes was needed for 1-log inactivation of type 1 poliovirus (Yahya et al.,
1990b). Tests showed a significantly higher inactivation rate at 23oC than at 7oC; however, there was
no significant difference in activation rates at pH 6.0 and pH 8.0.
Potassium permanganate doses from 0.5 to 5 mg/L were capable of obtaining at least a 2 log
inactivation of the surrogate virus, MS-2 bacteriophage with E. coli as the host bacterium (Yahya et
al., 1989). Results showed that at pH 6.0 and 8.0, a 2-log inactivation occurred after a contact time
of at least 52 minutes and a residual of 0.5 mg/L. At a residual of 5.0 mg/L, approximately 7 and 13
minutes were required for 2-log inactivation at pHs of 8.0 and 6.0, respectively. These results
contradict the previously cited studies that potassium permanganate becomes more effective as the
pH decreases.
5.4.3.3 Protozoa Inactivation
No information pertaining to protozoa inactivation by potassium permanganate is available in the
literature. However, based on the other disinfectants discussed in this report, protozoa are
significantly more resistant than viruses; therefore, it is likely that the dosages and contact times
required for protozoa inactivation would be impractical.


the above basicly says PP is not that effective on treating water, it can be used but probably as a last resort. in short the potassium permanganate should be used for fire craft and your feet problems, with pre treated water on wounds (cuts and grazes etc)..

with thanks to BritishRed for giving me the details and spending the time to look in the right areas...

regards to all, and thanks Red.

chris.