permethrin

[Ch@rlie]

Any of you guys (in the UK) know where to buy permethrin in the uk?
Ive been reading the hammock forums and permethrin seems to be the thing for keeping the bugs away, have any of you guys had any luck finding it to spray your kit? is there any product name we use over here?
I know deet is used to keep the midges off your skin but it has its health risks ect.

what are you guys using to spray your kit? or dont you bother?

 

[bikething]

I've used this stuff in the past

p.s. that was just the first link that came up - may be cheaper else where!

 

[bushwacker bob]

Cotswolds stock it.

 

[WolfCub]

"Lifesystems", a company that do various 'travel' bits do one called 'Expedition EX-8' that has permethrin in it.

When I last looked I couldn't find a spray-on one, only wash/soak. Thats fine for nets as it lasts, not so handy for clothes.

Permethrin does work, used it on my nets in Uganda. Think I still have a part bottle of mine (difernent 'brand') somewhere ?

If I find it in next 24hours and there's enough to treat a net left I'll PM you.

 

[Ch@rlie]

"Lifesystems", a company that do various 'travel' bits do one called 'Expedition EX-8' that has permethrin in it.

When I last looked I couldn't find a spray-on one, only wash/soak. Thats fine for nets as it lasts, not so handy for clothes.

Thanks guys,

Permethrin does work, used it on my nets in Uganda. Think I still have a part bottle of mine (difernent 'brand') somewhere ?

If I find it in next 24hours and there's enough to treat a net left I'll PM you.

Thankyou for the kind offer, I wasnt after obtaining any from other forum members, more trying to find out whats used over here.. like everything I tend to buy its a case of someone always tells you about the best product to use after I've purchased something for the job and used it. lmao

 

[Toddy]

Why are you using this in the UK ? and would pyrethrin not be just as effective and a lot less potentially harmful to aquatics, etc., ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[bikething]

Why are you using this in the UK ?

I used it to avoid ticks during a woodland-based bushcraft course

and would pyrethrin not be just as effective and a lot less potentially harmful to aquatics, etc., ?

I'd not heard of pyrethrin before now - a quick google turns up a number of articles - a quick skim read of the first few seem to imply that it's as harmful as permethrin?

i need to do some reading I think

 

[spiritwalker]

i got some life systems but you need to apply it alot it breaks down in sunlight and air quite quick...

 

[Toddy]

Pyrethrin is produced from one of the chrysanthemums.
It is toxic to insects, but, it's a natural product, produced by small scale farmers who rely on it's crop, and if applied at the recommended application dose is no where near as harmful as the alternatives. It's rapidly broken down in mammalian stomachs so is considered safe near foodstuffs......it's used in organic farming.

I have a memory of reading something about it interupting the sodium flow in insect cells and thus causing death. I know that it's considered safe enough to be used in flea shampoo for very young children, and somewhere I came across a do it yourself recipe for making the stuff from home grown flowers.

Ticks are no one's friends, like midgies, clegs and mozzies

cheers,
Toddy

 

[bikething]

Pyrethrin is produced from one of the chrysanthemums.
It is toxic to insects, but, it's a natural product, produced by small scale farmers who rely on it's crop, and if applied at the recommended application dose is no where near as harmful as the alternatives. It's rapidly broken down in mammalian stomachs so is considered safe near foodstuffs......it's used in organic farming.

I have a memory of reading something about it interupting the sodium flow in insect cells and thus causing death. I know that it's considered safe enough to be used in flea shampoo for very young children, and somewhere I came across a do it yourself recipe for making the stuff from home grown flowers.

That's not what I'm reading...

lots of stories of cats, dogs, and humans having adverse reactions to pyrethrin - even when used as intended, and at the proper dose...

From what i've read so far, it seems that Pyrethrin is a 'natural' substance, derived from Chrysanthemums (sp?), whereas Permethrin is very similar, but produced syntheticaly? - both work in the same way.

I shall continue to google...

 

[bikething]

Another point against pyrethrin is it is easily broken down by sunlight/washing, whereas permethrin is a bit more resillient. Having just returned from the jungles of Borneo where I was permanently wet (rain / humidity / wading rivers) permethrin would have been the better bet for clothing treatment.

 

[Toddy]

Keep reading

M

 

[bikething]

Keep reading

M

so much info.... so little time... I'm on page 2 of the search results...

There's conflicting info out there - most of the first page turned up negative reports ... though i'm not convinced that either is better than the other in terms of health effects yet...

time for a brew i think

 

[Shewie]

I've been using the Nomad Travel stuff for a few years and had really good results from it so far

 

[Toddy]

All insecticides are by their very nature toxic. How persistantly toxic becomes a huge issue when it becomes a long term pollutant.

In the UK the only insects that we really have issues with are the fleas, midgies, mozzies, horseflies and ticks. Only a tiny percentage of people live in such a way that the insecticide needs to be permanent.
Permethrin and pyrethrin both break down, both are contraindicated near cats and definitely near aquatics. The chrysanthemum (it's a daisy type flower) one breaks down thoroughly, a little faster and is considered 'organic'.
To make your own, grow the plant, pick the flowers in bloom, dry thoroughly and store until needed. When you want to use the stuff just grind it up (old coffee grinder works, but you can just crush them thoroughly and make a tea or tincture. Add some soap liquid (and no, I don't want to get into the row over my use of Fairy Liquid again, but it works very well) and spray onto clothing or netting.

Be sensible, don't drink the tea don't give it to the dog/cat/pet bird to drink, and dispose of by exposure to sunlight or on the roses. It won't discriminate and will kill bees too, so be careful when and where you spray.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[bikething]

The chrysanthemum (it's a daisy type flower) one breaks down thoroughly, a little faster and is considered 'organic'.

I'm still looking for something to indicate the timescale for breakdown. Permethrin typically claims 2 weeks so enough for a forthnights holiday in 'bug central'... any idea how long pyrethrin lasts before it needs to be re-applied? I've not found the answer yet...

 

[Toddy]

Depends on the sunshine.....that rare hot yellow ball thing that appears in the sky occasionally

M

 

[bikething]

Depends on the sunshine.....that rare hot yellow ball thing that appears in the sky occasionally

M

should last indefinitely in the UK then?

 

[EdS]

simply put permethrin is a synthetic version of pyrethrin - yweaked to make it more toxic and less degradable - both are toxic to land and aquatic inveterabrates and fish.

Having been involved with trade waste from the wool mills here (when there where some) and worked around permethrin tainted waste (and gamma HCH amongst others) it really is nasty stuff. That said we where looking at larger volumes and stronger solution inc. neat (unlike what you can by in shops). I try to avoid it as it has all sort of health implications such as stripping the myelin sheath from nerve cells. No real need for it in the UK.

It does not act as a repellent it is a contact killer, killing quickly usually before the critter can bite you. But not always. Just buy a decent repellent.

 

[Toddy]

I hoped you might see this one EdS

Thanks for the information; it's appreciated.

cheers,
M