Nikon D70s

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Squidders

Full Member
Aug 3, 2004
3,853
15
48
Harrow, Middlesex
Last month I deceided that my little FujiFilm F601 was getting a little tired and I fancied something that would take very nice photos... I got in touch with a friend / ex boss who writes for a few cycling mags... he's also very clued up with his cameras.

Anyway, long story short, I opted for a D70s and the new 18-200VR AF lens and the combination is awesome.

I thought that if anyone here was considering a new camera, my friends advice may be useful.

- Joe

________________________________________________________
Joe,

It just so happens that I have an email (in best Blue Peter tradition) that I did earlier - in mid December as it happens, but nothing significant has changed since.

Current DSLRs:

Canon: The strongest DSLR brand, with their 16.7Mpixel EOS 1Ds at £4675 probably being the best on the market (and so it should be at the price!).
They haven't done so well at the cheaper end, with the original EOS 300D being very trimmed on features (possibly to stop it taking sales from their more expensive offerings) and slow, and nothing like as good as the competing Nikon D70 (which I have). The current EOS350D is much improved, but despite having 8Mpixels compared to competitors' 6Mpixels, is generally described as producing "soft" pictures. The midrange EOS 20D is a very good camera, also 8Mpixel.

EOS350D body £525
with 18-55 £579 (note how cheap the lens is - it gets poor reviews!) EOS20D body £849

Nikon: Along with Canon, one of only 2 firms producing film and digital SLRs across all price ranges from basic amateur to top end professional.
Even if you don't want to spend several thousand on a camera, this is good, as the pro market drives improved autofocus and exposure systems, which quickly ripple down to the budget cameras.
My 6Mpixel D70 is now slightly tweaked to form the D70S, which is still generally regarded as the best "budget" DSLR - even after 18 months! For some reason the D70S is in short supply at the moment.
The newer D50 is also well reviewed, loosing few features from the D70S, and therefore a good choice.
The brand new 10Mpixel upper-midrange D200 looks stunning - I want one!
Ignore the discontinued midrange D100, now being sold off for around £700.

D50 body £398
with 18-55 £462 (again don't expect much from this lens) with 18-70 £582 (a very good lens) D70S body £579 D200 body £1199

Minolta: Minolta still make one professional film camera, but have been very late entrants to the DSLR market. They have lost market share as a result, and have laid of lots of staff recently as a cost cutting measure.
Their DSLRs have one unique feature - built in anti-shake technology in the camera body. These systems work very well, reducing camera shake.
Competitors Canon ("IS") and Nikon ("VR") fit their systems in the lens - which is slightly better technically and also works on film SLRS - but limits the system to certain lenses with the technology inside.

5D body £449
with 18-70 £479 (again don't expect much from this lens, but a good value combination, especially as it has a large 2.5" LCD screen)

Pentax: Another late entrant to the DSLR market. They haven't made a professional level film SLR for years, and haven't even done many mid-range models. As a result they were well behind in autofocus and exposure systems. Their first two DSLRs, the *ist D and the later *ist DS, got poor reviews. The latest *ist DL gets quite a reasonable review, although still not quite as good as the competitors. The *ist DS seems to have vanished from the shops, despite only being launched earlier this year.

*ist DL body only £459
with 18-55 £539

Olympus: After the wonderful OM series of the 70's and 80's (which I used for years), Olympus completely lost the plot when autofocus came along.
They have recently tried to make a comeback, with the all-new E series DSLRs. They have some good features, and their one unique feature is a special device to stop dust getting stuck on the CCD, which can result in dots on the image with most DSLRs. The E1 was launched as a pro-spec camera a couple of years ago, but with only 5.5Mpixels, it hasn't got much hope now in the pro market, so is quite cheap. The later E300 was very poorly reviewed, but the new 8Mpixel E500 is a good budget camera. Very limited lens range. I don’t think that the cameras have sold well, so I wonder how long Olympus will keep trying - although they have lots of multi-page ads at the moment for the E500.

E500 body only £569
with 14-45 £599 (a smaller sensor, so numbers not comparable)

Others: Ignore DSLRs from Sigma (e.g. SD10) and Fujifilm (e.g. S3 Pro).
Also don’t be tempted by the so-called bridge cameras like the Sony Cybershot R1. All these have fixed lenses, but otherwise most of the features of a DSLR. They almost universally suffer from nasty electronic viewfinders and noisy images, especially in poor light (just like compacts, they use tiny CCDs to keep the cost down, and a tiny CCD means tiny pixels which means lots of noise).

Lenses: Sigma and Tamron make good independent lenses for DSLRs. All are available in Nikon and Canon fit, most in Minolta, and a reasonable selection in Pentax fit. I think that the only alternative for Olympus E series lenses is a very limited range from Sigma.
The Sigma 18-50 at £80 is a better lens than the Canon (and possibly other cheapos - although I haven't seen reviews of all of them).
Sigma also do a nice 18-125 (28-200 equivalent) at £190.
Sigma and Tamron both do 18-200 (28-300 equivalent). The Tamron is the best reviewed at £270, with the Sigma at £255.

Overall, while the Minolta 5D and Olympus E500 have some nice features, I’d stick to Canon or Nikon. Being slightly Nikon-biased, I'd suggest the D50 with the 18-70 or perhaps the Tamron 18-200 if you want a long telephoto.

Note - all prices are from a December Warehouse Express ad (www.warehouseexpress.com).

Chris.
 
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JonnyP

Full Member
Oct 17, 2005
3,833
29
Cornwall...
Some good info there...............
Just like to add to it that because the minolta has the anti shake built into the camera body, you can get any lense set up you want like sigma etc and the anti shake will still work, but if you go for the nikon or cannons, you have to buy the lenses with the anti shake in, which are expensive. Saying that unless you use big lenses you probably wont need the anti shake. Look forward to seeing your shots Squidders, the d70 is a very good camera and popular...............Jon
 

Squidders

Full Member
Aug 3, 2004
3,853
15
48
Harrow, Middlesex
Hi Jon, I didn't know the others came with the stabilisation in the body and not the lens...

It works very well with the lens I got and I figure that if I upgrade (Actually, I probably will upgrade) to the D200 body, I still have a really nice lens for it.

The photos are great but showing people is a pain because I have to scale them down or make people put up with either a 5.5MB RAW file, a 20MB TIF file or a 5MB JPG :banghead:

I managed to fill a 2GB CF card in just under an hour chasing my cats around my back garden so I'm going to be investing heavily in hard drives from now on :lmao:

- Joe

[edit] I'd just like to add that anyone thinking of a buying a D70s should have a look on ebay for a D70 first as the "s" part, I think is a very slightly bigger screen and a button or two moved. The D70 can be upgraded to most of the D70s spec with a firmware upgrade, saving possibly quite a few quid in the process.
 

JonnyP

Full Member
Oct 17, 2005
3,833
29
Cornwall...
Squidders said:
Hi Jon, I didn't know the others came with the stabilisation in the body and not the lens...

It works very well with the lens I got and I figure that if I upgrade (Actually, I probably will upgrade) to the D200 body, I still have a really nice lens for it.

The photos are great but showing people is a pain because I have to scale them down or make people put up with either a 5.5MB RAW file, a 20MB TIF file or a 5MB JPG :banghead:

I managed to fill a 2GB CF card in just under an hour chasing my cats around my back garden so I'm going to be investing heavily in hard drives from now on :lmao:

- Joe

[edit] I'd just like to add that anyone thinking of a buying a D70s should have a look on ebay for a D70 first as the "s" part, I think is a very slightly bigger screen and a button or two moved. The D70 can be upgraded to most of the D70s spec with a firmware upgrade, saving possibly quite a few quid in the process.
Joe...............As far as I am aware, only the minolta has the stabilisation in the body, though others may now have since I last looked into it, which was a year or so ago...................Jon
 

tomtom

Full Member
Dec 9, 2003
4,283
5
38
Sunny South Devon
Good thread Joe with really good info.. im looking at geting a D50 in the next month! you may have jus made it harder for me to resist!
 

Squidders

Full Member
Aug 3, 2004
3,853
15
48
Harrow, Middlesex
TomTom The D50 is a very good camera that shares a lot of the features and quality of its more expensive brothers.

I did have a play with all three of the lower end cameras, the 50, 70s and 200 and the diference between the 50 and 70 isn't much at all. The 200 is a complete step up though in ability and price.

My personal advice would be to get the 50 or 70s and get the best len(s) you can as these can follow you to the next camera and make a big diference versatility the camera offers.

I'm going to get a good macro lens soon and then I think I have most of the bases covered.
 

Rebel

Native
Jun 12, 2005
1,052
6
Hertfordshire (UK)
Another vote here for the Nikon D70(s). A great camera for the price. Build quality, features and image quality are all excellent. The best buy in the price range IMO.

D200 cameras are still in short supply but when I've got the cash to buy one I will. I wouldn't say it's a quantum leap from a D70 at all but it does have a few more professional features, better weather sealing and the ability to use old "AI" lenses (of which I have a few having been a Nikon user since the seventies).

IMO Canon and Nikon are the only manufacturers with solid tried and proven cameras in the DSLR market at the moment. The others seem to be floundering or trying desperately to come out with some gimmick or technology that will give them an edge. It doesn't mean they don't make good cameras though but they just aren't quite as good as the top two when you look at the system you are buying in to.

Konica/Minolta have actually withdrawn from the camera and photo business so buying their SLR sytem might not the best idea.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0601/06011901konicaminoltaout.asp

Fujifilm's S3 Pro actually has Nikon lens and flash mounts and is based on a Nikon F80 body. Buying one therefore brings you into the Nikon stable but why buy one when Nikon's offerings are better?

I might add that as well as Tamron and Sigma, Tokina also make reasonably priced good quality lens for the Nikon system.

Picture taken with a D70 and Nikon Macro lens:

CMG-Infinity-Ultra-022.jpg
 

Great Pebble

Settler
Jan 10, 2004
775
2
54
Belfast, Northern Ireland
They photographers in my place of work both use Fujis funny enough.
I sort of had my heart set on obtainig the 350D before the summer but you've given me something to think about.

Mind you, one of the aforementioned photographers also suggested sticking with my film SLR for another year or so (I have a reasonably good compact digital), as he reckons the technology involved is still developing extremely fast and is due to settle a bit - With resulting price bonuses.
 

Squidders

Full Member
Aug 3, 2004
3,853
15
48
Harrow, Middlesex
There is also a rumour floating around that the D70s *may* be replaced this year with another model but I figured that waiting would only annoy me and that there's always going to be a new model on the horizon and that the prices will always be cheaper next month.
 

Rebel

Native
Jun 12, 2005
1,052
6
Hertfordshire (UK)
Great Pebble said:
They photographers in my place of work both use Fujis funny enough.

Probably a sensible decision at the time. The Fujifilm is a good camera and when it came on the market Nikon had nothing in the same category. You either had to shell out big money for a D2X or a D2H or get a D70 (which many pros did - see http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm). The D200 has changed all that. Those who bought Fujifilm cameras have Nikon lenses and flashes (or compatible ones) so they are in a good position to upgrade when the old camera bodies are no longer reliable enough for pro use.


Mind you, one of the aforementioned photographers also suggested sticking with my film SLR for another year or so (I have a reasonably good compact digital), as he reckons the technology involved is still developing extremely fast and is due to settle a bit - With resulting price bonuses.

I could be wrong (I often am) but I think that the sensor technology has now reached a point were we have enough megapixels and squeezing more onto one can actually degrade the image. Of course tomorrow some boffin could come out with a whole new technology that blows everything else away but the lens will also have to be able to get all the detail onto the sensor and lens technology hasn't been advancing quite so rapidly. For example in the picture I took of the torch I used a fifteen year old lens on a digital camera and the results are fine.

The new cameras have only been making minor improvements in other areas but this will continue forever. I personally believe that although prices will drop further as perfectly good older cameras become outdated that the savings aren't going to be vast compared to the amount of pictures you could be taking right now.

Nikon D70, 70-300mm zoom at 300mm
robin01.jpg
 

maverix

Forager
May 16, 2005
204
4
52
North Devon coast
Being another D70 owner I am yet to find a bad thing to say about it, i even chose it over the old D1x.
However a word of warning when it comes to the D200s.
Absoloutley awesome camera and in my opinion without shadow of a doubt the best in the price range. However a buddy of mine who works in Jessops tells me that the first batch to come into this country had BIG problems with their CCDs giving big vertical lines. in one of the smaller Jessops stores they had over 8 returns. the latest ones have a whole new CCD however the originals have been returned to Nikon who fiddled a bit with the CCD. They still arent quite up to scratch so be sure to take a card and check the pics before you buy, 'specially with SH and refurbs.
 

eraaij

Settler
Feb 18, 2004
557
61
Arnhem
Another vote for the D70s. After long hesitation, I decided to spend a good amount of money on a good digital camera. The D70s with its 18-70mm kit lens got good reviews. I always shot nikkormat in the analog days, and it takes some getting used to the plastic, but the camera is well build and with me most of my forest time. There are also a number of good lenses available 2nd hand. I got a good deal on a nice 70-210 mm zoom on ebay.

judasoor.jpg


A shot with the 70-210 mm zoom:
mees.jpg


-Emile
 

Great Pebble

Settler
Jan 10, 2004
775
2
54
Belfast, Northern Ireland
Despite the "warnings" in work, I was looking at the D70's "little brother" the D50 in a local Jessops on Thursday night, and in the course of the conversation the salesperson made me a "bundle" offer that I couldn't refuse :D

Unfortunately:- I had to refuse it, as the neither bank balance nor credit card are currently up to the job. :(

Fortunately:- She didn't mind as they were actually out of stock on the black bodies.. :)

They're expecting new stock in about a fortnight, by which time the payday fairy will have visited. They're keeping me one and will ring when it's there. I also have a written verification of the deal I was offered.

Quite chuffed. But... I'm honour bound not to reveal what the price was. For body, the 18-55 zoom, a third party long zoom and a 500mb SD.
 

Eric_Methven

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 20, 2005
3,600
42
73
Durham City, County Durham
Funny that. Jessops made me a bundle offer I couldn't refuse either, just before Christmas. I got the black D50 body and 18 - 55 AF lens, the 70 - 300 AF lens a spare battery pack and a 1Gb Super fast SD memory card all for under £700. He also threw in a Lowepro bag. I have used a Nikormat 35mm camera for many years and leaned towards the Nikon digital although I was looking a Cannon as well. Anyway, I'm very pleased with the D50 setup.

Eric
 
Jul 8, 2005
9
0
61
Derbyshire
Having been an Olympus 35mm user throughout the 80s and 90s, starting with a Trip and moving through to the truely awesome OM4Ti I have been waiting for their step into the budget (affordable for the less than averaged incomed!) user for a fair while. I have been 'digital' since 2001 with a 4mp compact, having the 'dark room' in my dining room is a distinct advantage.

Anyway to the DSLR, a month ago I bought the Olympus E500 twin lens kit from Jacobs at a very reasonable price. Physically it is smaller than the Nikons and larger than the Canons of similar price, it fits my hands very well. I find it very well specified with the bundled lenses giving very good quality images. I am extremely pleased with my purchase (then I would say that wouldn't I, as I would expect Nikon, Canon, Pentax owners to say the same!!), but I would steer clear of the Konica Minolta products as they have just dropped out of the market and sold up to Sony, so the manufacturers support is up in the air at the moment.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter a great deal which manufacturer you go with, all I would say is learn your camera inside out, it's strengths and weaknesses then play to it's strengths. Photography is the worst of all the hobbies that a man can take up as it plays directly to our weakness by being inherently kit orientated!!

Good luck with your camera and most of all enjoy.
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
I'm currently looking to upgrade my digital camera at the moment too.

Having been a photographer for 25 years I've got a truck load of film gear from 35mm to large format that is sitting unused at home.

I guess it's time to chop it in against the camera I want, but the sad thing is I know the value of it has fallen through the floor.

I'm looking at thousands of pounds worth of gear that is now worth less than half of the cost of the Canon D5 body. :(
 

redcollective

Settler
Dec 31, 2004
632
17
West Yorkshire
Wayland said:
Having been a photographer for 25 years I've got a truck load of film gear from 35mm to large format that is sitting unused at home.

Dont spose there's any Contax gear in that lot is there? I'm always looking for MM mount Zeiss lenses.
 

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