whats the difference between stainless steel, and carbon sheel? iv seen a few knives that are stainless carbon steel on ebay, wouldnt that be better as its both?
knife quality
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I'm by no means an expert. I find Carbon steel blades better for the simple reason they are easy to sharpen. They do however deteriorate more than the stainless blades, so not ideal if you use your knife in wet conditions or on water.
I'm sure far better explanations will follow shortly
I'm sure far better explanations will follow shortly
Have a good search around the site mate there is loads of info.
ROUGHLY
Carbon is less prone to chipping and is easier to sharpen, however it needs a lot more work to keep it free from rust etc.
Stainless needs a lot less maintenance and seems to keep an edge longer but can be more brittle and chip easier.
Horses for courses
ROUGHLY
Carbon is less prone to chipping and is easier to sharpen, however it needs a lot more work to keep it free from rust etc.
Stainless needs a lot less maintenance and seems to keep an edge longer but can be more brittle and chip easier.
Horses for courses
heres quite a good explaination of different blade materials
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/steels.htm
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/steels.htm
Either will do as long as the spine is sharp enough for the ferro rod and the edge sharp enough to make the feathers
cool, so stainless is ideal for the winter and carbon for the rest of the year. how about the stainless carbon steel kife i saw on ebay, surley it cant be bothe?
All steel has some carbon in it. Its probably just stainless. with a low/mid carbon rating. as opposed to high carbon which is what a carbon blade is.
I think that the poster is asking why not have both combined. A “ high carbon stainless steel knife”, best of both world. I’m sure I’ve seen them advertised on ebay, but I’ve always taken them to mean laminated blades carbon steel core, with stainless steel on the outside
My knife is carbon and takes no effort at all to look after. Just make sure I dry the blade each time I use it and when I store it for for any length of time I wipe oil along the blade then wipe off with paper towel. Had it years now and still not signs of rust.
I've only really had very fine bits of rust on carbon blades, nothing to worry about.
In my experience, sellers say "stainless carbon" or a varient when they either don't know what they're talking about, or do and want it to sound better than it is. I'm almost certain that if the blade was laminated, it would say so, since that would be a selling point.
As for firesteels, I think this has been addressed a few times, but here's a brief reiteration:
Stainless will cast sparks just as well as carbon from a ferrocerium rod. The defining factor is hardness and sharpness of the spine, contrary to flint where IIRC stainless can't cast good sparks regardless of hardness.
Hope this helps
Pete
In my experience, sellers say "stainless carbon" or a varient when they either don't know what they're talking about, or do and want it to sound better than it is. I'm almost certain that if the blade was laminated, it would say so, since that would be a selling point.
As for firesteels, I think this has been addressed a few times, but here's a brief reiteration:
Stainless will cast sparks just as well as carbon from a ferrocerium rod. The defining factor is hardness and sharpness of the spine, contrary to flint where IIRC stainless can't cast good sparks regardless of hardness.
Hope this helps
Pete
Steel is iron with certain impurities added to increase hardness, the most common being carbon. Iron (maybe surprisingly) has a lattice-like crystalline structure when used in knives etc, and the impurities stop the layers sliding over each other so easily in a similar way to putting sand under your tyres if your car is slipping on ice. Well, it's a good analogy, anyway.
Stainless steel (as well as the carbon) has a high content of chrome in it which doesn't, of course, rust, but it's very brittle. There's usually 12-25% chrome content in stainless steel.
On the flat of the blade, this is good: the iron at the surface rusts but then wears away leaving a (very thin) surface layer of just chrome to cover the iron and stop any further rusting. As the side wears, the rust quickly goes, leaving more chrome.
On the cutting edge of the blade, the chrome is a disadvantage because, being so brittle, it breaks off easily and you lose sharpness more quickly.
So cutlery is stainless with a high chrome content because you need it to stay looking good and sharpness is adequate, but you'll notice that Stanley knife blades will rust because sharpness is more important than shininess.
There are more expensive ways to make high-quality stainless steel, but these require more expensive impurities and manufacturing techniques.
Stainless carbon steel is just stainless steel being advertised by companies who hope that people who have been told that carbon steel is best, will think they have got both carbon steel and stainless steel (which they have, but all stainless steel has carbon in it if you are going to get any kind of edge to a blade).
So you have 3 choices:
Stainless: if you don't use the knife much, don't need the sharpest of edges (don't shave, don't need to shave, don't want to shave by holding a knife to their throat etc), don't mind sharpening it more often, and want to be able to leave it in the garage for the winter and it not rust
Carbon steel: if you will use the knife a lot or are prepared to wipe a film of oil on it if you know it will be left unused in a damp environment but want the best, most durable edge, want to impress your friends by shaving with a stupidly sharp knife.
High quality stainless: if you want (almost) the best of both worlds and have enough money not to care that you could have bought 10 or 20 Mora carbon steel knives for the price of the posh one.
As it happens, I've just had to buy a new knife and I decided on this knife (£10)
http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/survival-bushcraft-equipment-107.html
and a Fallkniven DC3 - a diamond/sapphire whetstone (£8.95)
http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/survival-bushcraft-equipment-1617.html
which will give you an unbeatable edge and, with some work, a polished finish to the flats.
The whetstone will sharpen anything, diamond is the hardest known substance, and sapphire the second hardest.
The quality of an inexpensive CS knife from a reliable manufacturer will equal or beat anything else you can get, and it won't rust away if you use it often and grease it up if you are going to leave it somewhere damp for a while.
Ian
Stainless steel (as well as the carbon) has a high content of chrome in it which doesn't, of course, rust, but it's very brittle. There's usually 12-25% chrome content in stainless steel.
On the flat of the blade, this is good: the iron at the surface rusts but then wears away leaving a (very thin) surface layer of just chrome to cover the iron and stop any further rusting. As the side wears, the rust quickly goes, leaving more chrome.
On the cutting edge of the blade, the chrome is a disadvantage because, being so brittle, it breaks off easily and you lose sharpness more quickly.
So cutlery is stainless with a high chrome content because you need it to stay looking good and sharpness is adequate, but you'll notice that Stanley knife blades will rust because sharpness is more important than shininess.
There are more expensive ways to make high-quality stainless steel, but these require more expensive impurities and manufacturing techniques.
Stainless carbon steel is just stainless steel being advertised by companies who hope that people who have been told that carbon steel is best, will think they have got both carbon steel and stainless steel (which they have, but all stainless steel has carbon in it if you are going to get any kind of edge to a blade).
So you have 3 choices:
Stainless: if you don't use the knife much, don't need the sharpest of edges (don't shave, don't need to shave, don't want to shave by holding a knife to their throat etc), don't mind sharpening it more often, and want to be able to leave it in the garage for the winter and it not rust
Carbon steel: if you will use the knife a lot or are prepared to wipe a film of oil on it if you know it will be left unused in a damp environment but want the best, most durable edge, want to impress your friends by shaving with a stupidly sharp knife.
High quality stainless: if you want (almost) the best of both worlds and have enough money not to care that you could have bought 10 or 20 Mora carbon steel knives for the price of the posh one.
As it happens, I've just had to buy a new knife and I decided on this knife (£10)
http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/survival-bushcraft-equipment-107.html
and a Fallkniven DC3 - a diamond/sapphire whetstone (£8.95)
http://www.survivalschool.co.uk/survival-bushcraft-equipment-1617.html
which will give you an unbeatable edge and, with some work, a polished finish to the flats.
The whetstone will sharpen anything, diamond is the hardest known substance, and sapphire the second hardest.
The quality of an inexpensive CS knife from a reliable manufacturer will equal or beat anything else you can get, and it won't rust away if you use it often and grease it up if you are going to leave it somewhere damp for a while.
Ian
The way I like to think of it, the only criterion for the chemistry of 'carbon steel' is to make a good blade -- the usual factors such as hardness, toughness etc. You might typically find perhaps 0.7-1% carbon, perhaps up to 1% manganese and traces of sulfur and phosphorus, with the balance being iron. A 'stainless steel' however has had a significant amount of effort gone into making it less likely to corrode; they usually contain a hefty amount of chromium. It's like mothers tend to say: you try doing two things at once and you'll do neither very well. Stainless has its uses certainly, but I have no major preference for stainless or carbon if I'm buying a knife or other edged tool; it's quality, useability (including ease to sharpen) and price I'm more interested in. Therefore I'll usually go for carbon.
If you want a good stainless steel knife, look for grade 440C steel.
If you want a good stainless steel knife, look for grade 440C steel.
as far as i'm aware, stainless steel has the same amount of carbon in it as carbon steel, it's just that the addition of certain alloying elemnets means that the steel is less prone to rusting, so it's still possible to have a "high carbon stainless" blade.
in my experience, stainless can be a bit harder to sharpen, but only when you get to the super steels, like s30v, bg42 and such, ordinary carbon steels can also be hard to sharpen, depending on grind, hardness etc.
in my experience, stainless can be a bit harder to sharpen, but only when you get to the super steels, like s30v, bg42 and such, ordinary carbon steels can also be hard to sharpen, depending on grind, hardness etc.
Never mind ebay descriptions.
If you are new to outdoor knife ownership( which I suspect you are ) you should look for a Frosts Mora or Clipper.
These are avaliable in either Carbon or Stainless steel (both are excellent) and you couldn't go wrong with either.
Albeit that the carbon one will be easier to sharpen.
The absolutely best bit about these knifes is they can be had for less than a tenner
You need look no further
If you are new to outdoor knife ownership( which I suspect you are ) you should look for a Frosts Mora or Clipper.
These are avaliable in either Carbon or Stainless steel (both are excellent) and you couldn't go wrong with either.
Albeit that the carbon one will be easier to sharpen.
The absolutely best bit about these knifes is they can be had for less than a tenner
You need look no further
hi there, thanx for all that great info everyone, i got my mora clipper (carbon), and i love it. i saw this knife on ebay at a cheap price and it looked really nice. it is advertised as stainless carbon steel, but you are all right, it must be basic stainless steel. again thanx everyone, heres the link so you can have a look.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Bushcraft...kparms=72%3A1298|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Bushcraft...kparms=72%3A1298|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
using your knife on water eh? - first sign of madness methinks.
cut **** you ! cut !
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