Is an Offensive weapon in Scotland, basically what two experts say it is?
- Thread starter Minotaur
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Come on, you cannot start this conversation on this board. Talk about not living in a free country!!!!!
As I said did not want to start the self defense arguement again.
What I was after is do we think the Police have changed their view of offensive weapons i.e. got to keep the numbers up.
As I said did not want to start the self defense arguement again.
What I was after is do we think the Police have changed their view of offensive weapons i.e. got to keep the numbers up.
No I don't think they have.
A kubotan is an offensive weapon, the Edinburgh police just treated it as they were supposed to.
cheers,
Toddy
p.s. the William & Mary Act needs to be seen in it's true context, not cherrypicked over to bolster a biased opinion.
A kubotan is an offensive weapon, the Edinburgh police just treated it as they were supposed to.
cheers,
Toddy
p.s. the William & Mary Act needs to be seen in it's true context, not cherrypicked over to bolster a biased opinion.
Hi Minotaur,
I think your question about the police changing their approach is fair. Of course they are becoming more aware of weapons and the pressure upon them to take more off the streets. It doesn't change for a second that anyone who carries an "offensive weapon" is asking for trouble. The kubotan was made for offense.It is an absolute. There is no doubt that it is offensive.
The plonker's circumstances make it risible. Had he felt he needed to defend himself, he would have been better prepared if he were sober/ not drawing attention to himself. Is there anyone out there who cannot think of an ordinary object whose normal use is acceptable but could be put to use for protection?
A propos the history, I am delighted that Toddy supplied some of the history and wider links. Frequently these threads bore me with the same whining nonsense. Here we have something meaty with quality imput.
Atb
G
I think your question about the police changing their approach is fair. Of course they are becoming more aware of weapons and the pressure upon them to take more off the streets. It doesn't change for a second that anyone who carries an "offensive weapon" is asking for trouble. The kubotan was made for offense.It is an absolute. There is no doubt that it is offensive.
The plonker's circumstances make it risible. Had he felt he needed to defend himself, he would have been better prepared if he were sober/ not drawing attention to himself. Is there anyone out there who cannot think of an ordinary object whose normal use is acceptable but could be put to use for protection?
A propos the history, I am delighted that Toddy supplied some of the history and wider links. Frequently these threads bore me with the same whining nonsense. Here we have something meaty with quality imput.
Atb
G
Well I did not mean to affend any of you by saying I feel sorry for you. I just think that all the knife laws in your country are a little to much and I am sure some of you will agree. Like I said knives are not just weapons they are tools. I dont carry a knife for only protection. Bears and courgars are another concern for some. In my opinion if you are unarmed you life is basicly at the mecy of anyone who wishes to do you harm. And around here you dont here of many breakins because the criminals know that chances are the homeowner will be armed. Maybe I should not have brought up guns
I dont know all the knife laws of your country but I dont think they are neccecery.
EDIT: Also mayby my reasoning for telling about the legality of open carrying a pistol was not clear. My point was that it is leagal to open carry a pistol here with some regulations but you never here of someone around here being murdred by someone legaly carrying a pistol. You rarly ever here of anyone being shot with a pistol at all in this area.
UK: 42 gun-related deaths last year with swathes of the country recording no homicides, suicides or accidental deaths from firearms.
USA: The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Disease_Control_and_PreventionCDC estimated 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-WISQARS-3 The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#cite_note-4 with firearms used in 16,907 suicides in the United States during 2004. In 2005 the number of homicides in the US using firearms 10,100
If we scaled up our gun deaths by 6 times to equate to the population of the US then we would have 252 deaths.....
It would be interesting to see what the knife crime related comparisons were. Bearing in mind the different sizes of population (England/Wales: 52-ish million. US: 300 million)
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There were and are plenty of 'weapons' available to the 'common man'; firearms are just one type.
As a side note the Webley Mk1 -- a high quality service revolver -- was supplied to the British Army for £3/1/1 in 1887. Even if we double the price to account for wholesale and a some inflation between 1887 and 1900 (the first year for which I can find inflation data) we get a 2010 equivalent of less than £600 -- not an insurmountable sum. Remember that this is for a high quality, high tech revolver, not an old Colt Navy or derringer. I propose that cost is/was a largely irrelavent factor in one's decision to carry a defensive weapon at the time.
At a time when the annual wage was in shillings I think you'll find that for those of a certain wealth then they were available, for the rest of the population, not something they wanted or needed.
Punt guns, shotguns, the old black powder guns........different people, different needs.
By the time you are talking about the UK was already an urbanisied society. We are the first industrialised nation, we were the first to turn the population balance from rural to urban.
That has a huge effect on the social structure, it's requirements and it's importances.
Access to hunting land has been restricted in the British Isles since the the beginning of the feudal system in the early 11th century. Waaaaaaaaay before firearms.
Contrary to the rants of those who suppose firearm suffrage I am not anti gun, I am anti nutcases demanding the spurious *right* to have guns.
Folks need to actually look at the history of this country, it's population and social structure and then where the firearms they demand actually have any relevance.
Shall we return the thread to topic ?
Toddy
Punt guns, shotguns, the old black powder guns........different people, different needs.
By the time you are talking about the UK was already an urbanisied society. We are the first industrialised nation, we were the first to turn the population balance from rural to urban.
That has a huge effect on the social structure, it's requirements and it's importances.
Access to hunting land has been restricted in the British Isles since the the beginning of the feudal system in the early 11th century. Waaaaaaaaay before firearms.
Contrary to the rants of those who suppose firearm suffrage I am not anti gun, I am anti nutcases demanding the spurious *right* to have guns.
Folks need to actually look at the history of this country, it's population and social structure and then where the firearms they demand actually have any relevance.
Shall we return the thread to topic ?
Toddy
Eveybody should be entitled to own a gun if they have need of it.The law supports this.
Farmers have shotguns,every gun club has gun owners,hunters have guns.So the law allows us to own guns as long as we can show we need them and can keep tyem secure and out of the hands of nutcases.
Pistols are illegal to own in this country unless you are in the armed forces or police forces,even then you don't own it the army or police own it and you are allowed to use it in the course of your duty.The problems arise when Joe public thinks his rights are being taken away,can any body on this forum honestly say they need a pistol?I don't ,I have no use for one.Can anybody honestly say they need a rifle,I can I hunt pigeon and rabbit for food(quite unsuccessfully so far).Do I need a rifle "just in case"?No.
The police and the law haven't changed their attitude to offensive weapons,they have always been illegal.What has changed is the different weapons people are using.
To my mind there are far fewer weapons available to the public now than there were 50 years ago,yet,we see more people being arrested for carrying offensive weapons is this because there are many different types of weapons available or are people using the same type of weapons more often.I'm not sure.
One thing I do know ,I carry with me the best weapon any body can carry, my brain.
I know what is an offensive weapon and I know what a knife is they are both the same article but the intent is the difference,I know malicious intent with a knife when I see it and thats when my other weapon starts to work,my legs.
The upshot of this thread should be clear to all,If you carry a knife to use in the woods all is O.K. though you may have to explain this to some.If you carry a knife with the intent to do harm then you deserve all you get.
Farmers have shotguns,every gun club has gun owners,hunters have guns.So the law allows us to own guns as long as we can show we need them and can keep tyem secure and out of the hands of nutcases.
Pistols are illegal to own in this country unless you are in the armed forces or police forces,even then you don't own it the army or police own it and you are allowed to use it in the course of your duty.The problems arise when Joe public thinks his rights are being taken away,can any body on this forum honestly say they need a pistol?I don't ,I have no use for one.Can anybody honestly say they need a rifle,I can I hunt pigeon and rabbit for food(quite unsuccessfully so far).Do I need a rifle "just in case"?No.
The police and the law haven't changed their attitude to offensive weapons,they have always been illegal.What has changed is the different weapons people are using.
To my mind there are far fewer weapons available to the public now than there were 50 years ago,yet,we see more people being arrested for carrying offensive weapons is this because there are many different types of weapons available or are people using the same type of weapons more often.I'm not sure.
One thing I do know ,I carry with me the best weapon any body can carry, my brain.
I know what is an offensive weapon and I know what a knife is they are both the same article but the intent is the difference,I know malicious intent with a knife when I see it and thats when my other weapon starts to work,my legs.
The upshot of this thread should be clear to all,If you carry a knife to use in the woods all is O.K. though you may have to explain this to some.If you carry a knife with the intent to do harm then you deserve all you get.
you big lightweight!!
i got a 9 inch scare from a baseball bat on my head and a lovley star shaped one on my forhead where the tire iron removed all the stuff between my skull and the atmosphere so they had to slit me and stich the bits to cover the hole. also from security work.really nothing is not a weapon no expert need be consulted a kobutan has one use if your ignorant of that use and pretend you think it would make a nice keyring its your own lookout.
i dont like the police most people who work the door will prob have a low opinion of them or at least the attitude they exude wether by the individual or the restrictions they work under. that said under these conditions the guy got what he deserves
When I was in Florida I owned a 12 gauge shot gun I used it for hunting birds and deer the woods in Florida can be thick. as well as a 30-30 rifle for deer. A 50 cal. muzzle loader for black powder season. And a 22 rimfire for small game. I never owned a hand gun cant stand them nor can I see any need for them. Hunting licences are not expensive there. I dont see me owning over here cant affored to hunt so I dont need them. I never worried about getting shot over there. And less so here. Should there be a ban in the States on Hand guns and auto rifles YES. I feel the laws over here on guns and knives are clear and fair.
Just my two cents.
Just my two cents.
Couldn't agree more. It seems that having the constitution on your side to bear arms seems like a right to use it too.
I'm glad we have more stringent laws on owning weapons and maybe having (relative) less weapon related accidents and offences as a result.
I have to agree. They say it dissuades criminals if you can own and use a handgun with impunity, but the American jails would suggest otherwise. Fair play, they do get rid of a fair few of them and that frees up space in the prison system! I don't think it is a fair trade off when you have kids going into schools creating mayhem with guns and ammo bought from Wal-Mart or the fear generated by a pair of loonies sniping at people for a few months. I like the British laws as they are, I feel Britons were punished when the gun laws were changed after Hungerford and Dunblane but it is never going to be reversed so there is no point getting upset about it.
Given that the device in question is an offensive weapon, this is a non-story!
Irrespective of any other factor, it is an offensive weapon!
Such devices are invariably carried by those whom have no ability to use them with any degree of competence, and as such are more likely to cause serious injury to their victim.
Ironically, the vehicle is more of a public danger when driven in the circumstances described...
Irrespective of any other factor, it is an offensive weapon!
Such devices are invariably carried by those whom have no ability to use them with any degree of competence, and as such are more likely to cause serious injury to their victim.
Ironically, the vehicle is more of a public danger when driven in the circumstances described...
I've seen (admittedly anecdotal) evidence from interviews with prisoners that an armed target is the biggest possible deterrent for violence.
I don't know of anywhere in the US you can actually use a firearm on people with impunity -- you're responsible for every shot fired. Kids shooting up schools is a whole other problem -- secure storage as well as a socio-phsychologial issue of poor parenting and social care. Who cares if guns and ammo are sold in convenience stores? They have to fulfill all the paperwork and legal neccesities that any other gun dealer has to -- and that's a lot more than you'd think. The reason you don't get so much of that in this country is simple volume of sales and demand, though they do exist.
America as a country (much as I hate to generalise to such a great extent) is a lot more violent than the UK. Even if we level the 'gun' field by going back before 1920 (when there were actually more gun restrictions in the US than the UK, albeit at the state and local level) the per-capita violent crime rate was higher across the pond than here. Why? Who knows. Perhaps it's the inherent instability of such a young nation, or intolerance in a massively inhomogenous demographic.
Noone would suggest that violence in Africa is due to guns, so why do the same on another continent?
(I wonder how long before this thread gets locked?)
Obviously not a big enough deterrent though! I'm not totally up on American Law but I was under the impression tat the moment somebody enters your home without invitation, you can let 'em have it with both barrels! That to me would be a pretty good reason to not break into anybodys' house, but it obviously still happens as their prisons aren't sat vacant!
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against gun ownership, but it needs to be controlled like it is in UK. FAC isn't granted just because, you have to jump through certain hoops to be eligible and rightly so. I still disagree with banning hand guns, it has done nothing to safeguard the country as far as I am concerned.
As a rule, burglary while the home is occupied is less common in the US for that reason. Plenty of other categories of crime for the criminally inclined to fill.
The laws vary from state to state.
Anybody seen the dammage a car ignition key can do to a human?
They are on my keyring and can def be used as quite an offensive weapon, legal though.
As for the trial, draconian laws by a police state.(except for the drink driving charge).
They are on my keyring and can def be used as quite an offensive weapon, legal though.
As for the trial, draconian laws by a police state.(except for the drink driving charge).
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Originally Posted by littlebiglane
UK: 42 gun-related deaths last year with swathes of the country recording no homicides, suicides or accidental deaths from firearms.
USA: The CDC estimated 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with firearms used in 16,907 suicides in the United States during 2004. In 2005 the number of homicides in the US using firearms 10,100
If we scaled up our gun deaths by 6 times to equate to the population of the US then we would have 252 deaths.....
It would be interesting to see what the knife crime related comparisons were. Bearing in mind the different sizes of population (England/Wales: 52-ish million. US: 300 million)
Couldn't agree more. It seems that having the constitution on your side to bear arms seems like a right to use it too.
I'm glad we have more stringent laws on owning weapons and maybe having (relative) less weapon related accidents and offences as a result.
where as the NHS kill thousands each year Who wernt fatally ill and just get asked to wash hands a little more and please use this gel if you feel like it.
your far more likly to Die if you go to hospital for a minor op than be knifed etc by a factor of many
one year (cant find the data now Typical
Link saying one bug acounted for 3,800 in 04 to 05 ) was close to 10,000 thats 200 per week deaths by road accident is on a similer level
BUT 50 per year by Gun and 2-300 per Year by knife is wherethe Hysteria is
ins population of 70 Million
so the NHS Kills 50 times more people per year than Knives and 200 times more than Guns
one guy was on the news a couple of years ago and had lost both his wife and daughter who went in for minor ops on differnt occasions
ATB
Duncan
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