Hunting in the UK

[Toddy]

I reckon my bushcrafting is pretty wide spread, and I don't hunt, I don't fish, I don't trap, and I don't go hungry.

It's not necessary to be involved in, or approve of, those sports (or foraging techniques ) to do 'bushcraft'.
Bushcraft is a enormously wide set of skills and even in our rather crowded green islands is still very manageable.
The seasonal round, the resources of the time and the techniques appropriate to using them, are a brilliant way to keep any connected to it bushcrafter interested.

This is not a slight against those who do hunt, trap or fish, but those are just a small part of the whole, not the basis or the entirety.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Dave]

All the land in the UK was stolen Ross, post norman invasions, during successive enclosures acts, by the aristocracy, and parliamentary landlords, however the Land Registry still doesnt know who owns up to 50% of the land, presumably because they have been told not to ask. 'Beneficial ownership' laws mean our 'lords and masters' can buy and sell land without informing the inland revenue.....hilarious really.
Means the taxman loses literally billions in lost revenue.
Millions and millions of acres of Land is held in offshore trusts so they dont get taxed on it. In fact what happens, is the richest landowners dont pay land tax, they are funded by the poorest taxpayers, and the EU, who give them billions in grants each year.
In reality its an obscene situation.
The establishment here is very good at avoiding making certain facts public knowledge, and presenting the country as a democracy...
For instance, about 1200 people own over 60% of Scotland and 70% of the land in the UK is owned by less than 1% of the population.
A fact which made the Sunday Times comment it was a situation you normally find in a third world dictatorship.

Back then, if you mentioned it didnt seem fair, they would cut off your ears, feet and hands, or poke your eyes out, and leave you as an example for the other commoners.

They cant do that now, so they control everything through layers of beaurocracy, hide and control the information, and strangle any real debate.

Were the sheep you see......Baaaaaa

 

[Bladeophile]

I reckon my bushcrafting is pretty wide spread, and I don't hunt, I don't fish, I don't trap, and I don't go hungry.

It's not necessary to be involved in, or approve of, those sports (or foraging techniques ) to do 'bushcraft'.
Bushcraft is a enormously wide set of skills and even in our rather crowded green islands is still very manageable.
The seasonal round, the resources of the time and the techniques appropriate to using them, are a brilliant way to keep any connected to it bushcrafter interested.

This is not a slight against those who do hunt, trap or fish, but those are just a small part of the whole, not the basis or the entirety.

cheers,
Toddy

I can respect your point of view Toddy although it differs from my own. I certainly appreciate being able to put food on the table everyday without having to resort to the use of a gun - and coming back empty handed some days no doubt. At the moment food still comes very easy here in the UK.

 

[rg598]

Anyway thats me done. Keep up the good work in protecting the countryside and the country way of life - before it disappears altogether.

One final question. Is a pump action shotgun as good for hunting as the traditional type of guns. Saw a guy hunting with a Winchester in the UK.

Thanks, we are trying.

As far as pump action vs traditional (I assume you mean side by side or over/under) shotguns, in terms of hunting, there isn't that much of a difference. In the US, if you intend to hunt migratory birds, the shotgun has to be limited to three shells or less. So, even though a pump action shotgun can technically hold more, in reality you get only one extra round as compared to a side by side. The choice is just a matter of preference. In my opinion the important thing is that whether it be pump action or side by side, it be modern enough to use interchangeable choke tubes. Older models have fixed chokes, which I believe is a disadvantage.

It's not necessary to be involved in, or approve of, those sports (or foraging techniques ) to do 'bushcraft'.
Bushcraft is a enormously wide set of skills and even in our rather crowded green islands is still very manageable.
The seasonal round, the resources of the time and the techniques appropriate to using them, are a brilliant way to keep any connected to it bushcrafter interested.

I also don't think that hunting and fishing are necessary for bushcraft, but I do think they are a very important part of it if we are going to speak about it as a complete subject. So much of what we discuss is about getting back to nature, "thriving" in nature, living like our ancestors, etc. In my opinion that is very difficult to do without understanding the mechanisms of acquiring food and what that entails. People here talk all the time about how they could thrive alone in the wilderness with just a knife or an axe, yet it is hard to give those statements any weight when the person has no idea what it takes to hunt down a deer using a rifle, let alone a spear.

For instance, about 1200 people own over 60% of Scotland and 70% of the land in the UK is owned by less than 1% of the population.
A fact which made the Sunday Times comment it was a situation you normally find in a third world dictatorship.

Wow, that is pretty ridiculous. Things make a lot more sense in that context.

 

[Toddy]

Not that many folks really want back to nature without at least some of the benefits of modern life, and there aren't many threads here on that topic.
The reality is that in these islands at least, we simply couldn't with the population that we have. Farming is an absolute necessity.

Dave, please mind the 'no politics guidelines'; it'd be appreciated.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Dave]

Dave, please mind the 'no politics guidelines'; it'd be appreciated.

Sure thing. Im not partisan Mary, I dislike all political parties and politicians.

 

[Toddy]

Very fair minded of you
I'm mostly inclined to distrust the blighters myself

M

 

[santaman2000]

.....In my opinion that is very difficult to do without understanding the mechanisms of acquiring food and what that entails. People here talk all the time about how they could thrive alone in the wilderness with just a knife or an axe, yet it is hard to give those statements any weight when the person has no idea what it takes to hunt down a deer using a rifle, let alone a spear. sense in that context....

Why? I mean why a deer? Small game hunting is generally easier and more effective for survival. Not that most of us would be as good at that as we imagine in a survival situation.

 

[rg598]

Why? I mean why a deer? Small game hunting is generally easier and more effective for survival. Not that most of us would be as good at that as we imagine in a survival situation.

It's the first example that came to mind. Scouting for deer season now. Same applies to any game. Hunting squirrel in the forest is hard enough with a shotgun, let alone a sling shot.

 

[santaman2000]

It's the first example that came to mind. Scouting for deer season now. Same applies to any game. Hunting squirrel in the forest is hard enough with a shotgun, let alone a sling shot.

Agreed. Most of us wouldn't do near as well as we think.

 

[British Red]

Easy enough to trap squirrels though - more efficient too

 

[petrochemicals]

Intresting, there are 2 million deer due to lack of predators, maybe I'll bother to get a gun and eat one, look out bambi, will go nicely with my "hammock net". Apparrently they need culling, but I suppose it depends on which spieces and where abouts(the police and land owners are!).

Hunting in the uk I think is and has always been for a long time a ponsy past time, nothing to do with harvesting natural recources. Birds are farmed released and then shot. It took 50 tarted up people and god nows how many dogs an entire day to torture to death a fox or two. They're hardly the massai braves, or the mountain men. Probably due to the very small wild land and even less that is productive wild land. If we reforested much of the moors and heaths with trees, then we would stand a chance of hunting the resources that are there. 2 million deer is probably enough for each person in the uk to eat venison once a decade, its why we've got deer farms. France has wild boar, USA has pumas, Ukraine has wolves, the uk has a grouse or two. The uk is a completley manipulated piece of land.

 

[mereside]

Nope there is simply no land, almost every scrap of land in the UK is owned by someone, there are few exceptions but not many and even less suitable for hunting on.

Cheers

Alan

the land is owned by someone but you have choices for hunting here, you can knock on farmers doors for pest control rabbits and pigeon is good eating and farmers hate them as they can devastate a crop, you can easily join a wildfowl club to shoot the foreshores in england and scotland and is fairly cheap as you dont need much gear and for as little as 50 pounds have access for a year. if you go down the route of deer stalking either pay per day to a pro or get your level 1 and 2 in deer stalking and get into either one of the forestry groups to manage the deer,fc, fountains forestry, tillhill to name some.
if you get a farm to manage vermin the natural progression is onto deer, when i started stalking i was told about three years before you get your foot firmly in the door and people get to know you and start trusting you and it is true i manage two forestry blocks one on the west coast and one in dumfries.
I have farms at home for deer but keep the numbers to an acceptable amount as it is nice to see them out,deer have seasons but you can hunt all year round for deer as the seasons work

Species/sex	England and Wales ​	Scotland​	Northern Ireland​
Red
Stag	Aug 1 - Apr 30​	Jul 1 - Oct 20​	Aug 1 - Apr 30​
Hind	Nov 1 - Mar 31​	Oct 21 - Feb 15​	Nov 1 - March 31​
Fallow
Buck	Aug 1 - Apr 30​	Aug 1 - Apr 30​	Aug 1 - Apr 30​
Doe	Nov 1 - Mar 31​	Oct 21 - Feb 15​	Nov 1 - March 31​
Sika
Stag	Aug 1 - Apr 30​	Jul 1 - Oct 20​	Aug 1 - Apr 30​
Hind	Nov 1 - Mar 31​	Oct 21 - Feb 15​	Nov 1 - March 31​
Roe
Buck	Apr 1 - Oct 31​	Apr 1 – Oct 20​	--​
Doe	Nov 1 – Mar 31​	Oct 21 - Mar 31​	--​
Red/sika hybrids
Stag	Aug 1 - Apr 30​	Jul 1 - Oct 20​	Aug 1 - Apr 30​
Hind	Nov 1 - Mar 31​	Oct 21 - Feb 15​	Nov 1 - March 31​
Chinese water deer	(only found in England)​
Buck	Nov 1 - Mar 31​	--​	--​
Doe	Nov 1 - Mar 31​	--​	--​
Muntjac **	(only found in England and Wales)​
	All year round

 

[Bladeophile]

Why? I mean why a deer? Small game hunting is generally easier and more effective for survival. Not that most of us would be as good at that as we imagine in a survival situation.

Perhaps one of the reasons could be the taste alone. I don't have a gun but I've been lucky enough to have three Roe deer killed outright on the road in my freezer. (A consequence of the local hunt driving the animal towards a 60mph A road). That's many classy meals. To be fair I have not tried squirrel yet.

 

[santaman2000]

Perhaps one of the reasons could be the taste alone. I don't have a gun but I've been lucky enough to have three Roe deer killed outright on the road in my freezer. (A consequence of the local hunt driving the animal towards a 60mph A road). That's many classy meals. To be fair I have not tried squirrel yet.

For taste's sake alone, I prefer deer as well. But that's not a "survival" thing really. Small game is more practical for most.

 

[Uilleachan]

There's no shortage of deer and or opportunities for a beast, legal or otherwise. These days I can't be bothered with all the hassle, sneaking round and what have you, cheap as chips a beast although you have to butcher it yourself to keep low cost.

I generally have one on the lead up to christmas that lasts the first half of the year for me, last week in November to the first week in December is around perfect for a hind where I am, fat enough to collect a pan or two of venison lard. I picked my last hind up in a three piece suit straight from the larder, perfectly ready for the knife for less than the price of a night in the pub plus not a mark on the suit.

 

[mereside]

The forestry commission is now subcontracting Stalking to local holders of DSC2 minimum for pretty high sums. Be prepared not to use lead, to prepare a risk assessment, hold a first aid qualification and prepare a case.

Certainly not just open to Joe public to shoot.

actually it is not all high sums as we dont pay a deal we did put in alot of work with risk asessments and made sure we met the highest marks on each requirement, the use of copper bullets is now on hold also as there has been problems with them. the other forestry organisations at the minute do not ask you jump through the same hoops as fc but i am sure it will be a matter of time ,but to me rightly so, we have had two leases now wih fc and all deer qoatas met and still plenty around ,we have also never had rangers come in as we keep the damage to a minimum and we are on the ground alot, atb wayne

 

[Countryman]

actually it is not all high sums as we dont pay a deal we did put in alot of work with risk asessments and made sure we met the highest marks on each requirement, the use of copper bullets is now on hold also as there has been problems with them. the other forestry organisations at the minute do not ask you jump through the same hoops as fc but i am sure it will be a matter of time ,but to me rightly so, we have had two leases now wih fc and all deer qoatas met and still plenty around ,we have also never had rangers come in as we keep the damage to a minimum and we are on the ground alot, atb wayne

I had heard £300 to £350 per deer on quota was the FC target zone.

 

[Toddy]

HWMBLT has just come in with a carrier bag; he met a friend who said he'd promised me some of the next one for him, so Himself's having venison roast for his dinner and the steaks are in the freezer Pretty good barter for turning up a couple of pairs of trousers

cheers,
M

 

[mereside]

way off on our pieces of ground but thats not to say some people are putting daft qoutes in to get ground, I won't publicise what we pay but it is cheap , we narrowly missed out on a piece in england last week again our costing was not alot but the other guy in the running answered one question better than ours and the feedback we got was an exellent presentation and he won on that pipping us at the last point.
The prices did not come into it and he had a similar price but lots of othere went for this ground but did not go to interview.
At the end of the day they need a job doing and if you can do it properly you stand a higher chance than someone who wants ground but won't put the hours in to put deer into the larders and keep damage to a minimum. I am happy with the ground we have and let one go last year , lots of deer on it which again we met targets easily but we wanted more reds than roe so we let it go a great piece to stalk which came with lochs and you get the game birds also in some of the leases, lots of people diss fc but i have a different experience but i commit alot of time to it today i have just put in a haunch of young red stag into the oven from my last outing for friends to come round tonight. this will be the last one to eat for a while as reds coming up to the rut so all the stags now will go into the game dealer as they tend to be a strong flavour when rutting and they go abroad for the german market, up till now i think red and fallow are my favourite venison although muntjack is up there, anyone wanting to get into stalking i would say just go for it as its a fantastic way to eat well and have a great time away.
I am going back on the west coast in the next few weeks on the reds and love this time of year the roar through the misty mountains sends tingles through the spine and to get within a few meters of these creatures is magnificent even when i don't take one i love being out and its not about the killing of animals its about being out there in the middle of nowhere not knowing what you will see next and being totally away from reality and to come away with an animal is a bonus and to know where your food comes from and to work hard for it taking the right ones i am blessed pulling the trigger is the easy part but the carry out is where the hard work starts our grounds are hard work you cant get a vehicle in to extract so you have to carry or drag out and not many want this type of work but it is what i enjoy stalking hard ground were you work to find deer it is very rewarding , atb wayne