Hunting in the UK

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Countryman

Native
Jun 26, 2013
1,652
74
North Dorset
Game is really Pheasant, Grouse and similar and Hare (though this can be sometimes vermin).

Rabbits, squirrel, crows and pigeon are vermin. Sometimes Canada Geese can be treated as vermin.

Deer is legally Deer and not game.

Fox is legally not vermin.

Wildfowl is wildfowl. Water birds, Duck, Geese etc.
 
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boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
77
Cornwall
Please explain how poachers can have cleared out an area from having deer which is a bad thing. But, the deer population is so big that it needs culling which is a good thing? Of course poachers often use inhumane methods which is a very bad thing. Really though isn't virtually all hunting in this country, apart from shooting artificially raised or maintained birds, really culling? This is surely how you get permission to shoot pigeons and rabbits.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
44
North Yorkshire, UK
Please explain how poachers can have cleared out an area from having deer which is a bad thing. But, the deer population is so big that it needs culling which is a good thing?

Culling is careful reducing number so that there is a healthy population level. *not* the same thing as killing every single one in an area.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
77
Cornwall
Culling is careful reducing number so that there is a healthy population level. *not* the same thing as killing every single one in an area.

But it would fill up from neighbouring areas, one argument against badger culling of course.
 

Countryman

Native
Jun 26, 2013
1,652
74
North Dorset
Poachers indeed kill everything regardless of season. In deer this represents mature good breeding specimens both male and female, immature, pregnant and females with fawns at foot.

Over time numbers will indeed be replaced from surrounding areas. Arguably of poorer specimens being pushed out from other areas.

The badger cull will be a systematic reduction in numbers unrelated to the quality of the population. It will prove if a sudden reduction in population can be linked to a sudden reduction in cases of bovine tb in the cull areas. Simple as really.

Gut feel is it will and a link will be proven. It makes no sense to give Badgers special protection. They are in overpopulation which impacts their health as well as numbers of ground nesting birds and Hedgehogs. They are also becoming rather bold.
 

Dannytsg

Native
Oct 18, 2008
1,825
6
England
Some very well formed and informative posts.

I just want to add that in terms of our "hunting licenses" we are only permitted to hunt what is given a season or general license. General Licenses are issued annually and tend to apply to those animals generally classed as vermin but set out the conditions on which they can be culled, you can't just shoot them for the sake of it. As for game animals they can only be shot during their season's. This information is made public by BASC and other shooting organisations and taking an animal out of season is poaching.

I think everything else with regards to hunting options in terms of firearms etc has been well covered here. It's suffice to say that those who want to hunt can hunt providing they meet every strict criteria laid out by the government, which can and normally is quite a long process (6 months minimum for S1 application, DSC certificate, land acquisition etc). The sad thing is that those who want to poach can do so in a much quicker time frame and with more damaging effects.

Long gone are the days of poachers taking one home to put food on the table, now it's a profit making exercise on both side of the coin.
 

rg598

Native
Thanks guys. I appreciate the information.

Here in the US we seem to have much easier access to hunting and guns. It varies based on state. I live in NY, which is one of the most restrictive states in terms of firearms.

Even in my area though, there is a good amount of public land for hunting. A lot of people hunt private land because it is easier to access. Game is regulated by season (which is different for each state depending on the different populations of the particular game animal). We also have some restrictions on what can be used to hunt certain animals (mostly for fair chase reasons). For example, in my state I can only hunt turkey with shotgun. For waterfowl you can only use a shotgun and can only load two shells in the tube and one in the chamber (Federal regulation). A lot of predators you can hunt at night, but other game is typically during daylight only.

To get a hunting license you have to take a free 2 day Hunter Safety class. After that you can just buy your license from the store. In my state you can get small game license, and big game license, which comes with two deer tags, one bear tag and four turkey tags (two Spring and two Fall). Other states tend to have more relaxed regulations and allow elk and moose hunting as well. You can bow hunt, which offers you an extended hunting season, but you need to take another Hunter Safety class that is specific to bow hunting. You can then buy a bow hunting license.

Firearm laws are separate from the hunting regulations. My state being one of the most restrictive ones when it comes to guns, I need a special permit for a handgun. Otherwise, for shotguns and rifles I can just go to the store and buy them. The hunting regulations on the weapons don't actually apply to ownership of the firearms. While I can only hunt waterfowl with a shotgun that is limited to two rounds in the tube, I can own a shotgun with as much ammunition capacity as I want. They sell plugs for the tube which will make it hunting legal.

Hunting seems to be much more accepted and widely spread here in the US than it is in the UK. Unfortunately, even here, as more people move into the cities, fewer people hunt. I fear that it is a skill that will be lost to future generations.
 

Countryman

Native
Jun 26, 2013
1,652
74
North Dorset
I fear for shooting in this country similarly. A couple of generations maybe unless we come out as a group and get young people shooting. Guns are widely seen as bad and of interest only to the wrong sort of person. Criminals have guns not decent folk.

Then there is the concept of using that gun to kill animals which is widely less acceptable still. Meat comes in a poly tray from your supermarket of choice.

We are so removed from the act of killing and butchery as a society that it is seen as horrific.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
I've gathered from the forum that there's also a perception in the UK (a cultural perception) that hunting was for the more affluent and thus not a sport for the common man. A perception that many on the forum refute I might add but that might have some influence on why there isn't public hunting land in the UK; There's no perceived need.
 

Countryman

Native
Jun 26, 2013
1,652
74
North Dorset
Certainly deer stalking and fly fishing and pheasant or grouse shooting are seen as for the elite.

Truth is many walk up syndicates for pheasant are run by average earners and many a working man stalks.

Can't say that the ferret man with his nets and shotgun has ever been seen so highly.

Shooting pigeons over decoys certainly doesn't carry any great status.

Young lads cannot so easily now go hunting with an Airgun thanks to the violent crime reduction act.

All of the UK is owned by someone. Unlike the USA with vast tracts of empty land. We are a densely populated little island.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Nope there is simply no land, almost every scrap of land in the UK is owned by someone, there are few exceptions but not many and even less suitable for hunting on.

Cheers

Alan

I seem to remember numerous mentions of national forests? National parks?
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
All that said, I acknowledge the lack of land. Was just asking if perceptions don't add another layer?
 

Dannytsg

Native
Oct 18, 2008
1,825
6
England
Certainly deer stalking and fly fishing and pheasant or grouse shooting are seen as for the elite.

Truth is many walk up syndicates for pheasant are run by average earners and many a working man stalks.

Can't say that the ferret man with his nets and shotgun has ever been seen so highly.

Shooting pigeons over decoys certainly doesn't carry any great status.

Young lads cannot so easily now go hunting with an Airgun thanks to the violent crime reduction act.

All of the UK is owned by someone. Unlike the USA with vast tracts of empty land. We are a densely populated little island.

Some great point but can I stare that fly fishing is very much accessible to anyone from all backgrounds. I am a modest earner with 4 children but for me to fly fish for trout it costs £17 with one keep at my local fishery. I think that this is a lot more available and cost friendly that going on a driven shoot or stalk just because of the costs involved.
 

Dougster

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 13, 2005
5,254
238
The banks of the Deveron.
Some great point but can I stare that fly fishing is very much accessible to anyone from all backgrounds. I am a modest earner with 4 children but for me to fly fish for trout it costs £17 with one keep at my local fishery. I think that this is a lot more available and cost friendly that going on a driven shoot or stalk just because of the costs involved.

That comes under the heading of fenced game for me. Fisheries are great and I have been to some, but to get wild trout, from a river will add at last a zero, possibly on some areas two.

I shoot rabbits and foxes for farmers. I have a large sports area to clear next week - get them all in as few hits as possible now the small ones aren't dependent upon mum.

I stalk two or three times a week should I wish, but I shoot every four or five of those. I had the joy of watching some deer last night through binos and enjoying watching them go about their business as they were ones to be left. It's a shame to think that we are the only island in that area which leaves the best boys as they fetch a lot of money for those renting the rights from the farmers.

I have seen pigeon afternoons and rabbit evenings advertised for a fee and foxing is tightly sewn up around here. Pigeon shooting and an evenings rabbiting can cost £150!!

Deer stalking is the fastest non team sport in the UK apparently. It's just the money involved that is the issue. I'm into it for a lot of money and I don't pay for rights. I still can't reconcile myself to driven shooting, I'm not anti, it's just not for me.
 

Pterodaktyl

Full Member
Jun 17, 2013
134
1
Devon
I seem to remember numerous mentions of national forests? National parks?

We don't have National Forests as such. The Forestry Commission (the UK equivalent of the USFS) owns and leases a considerable amount of land, in fact I believe it's the largest land owner in the UK. The land which it owns (but not the leased land) has mostly been dedicated as open access land, this basically allows you to walk almost anywhere you want on it, but not do anything else such as ride, camp or hunt. National Parks do exist, however in the UK the term does not imply public ownership of the land. It's mostly to do with marketing the area as a tourism venue and controlling development within the designated area. Scotland is rather different, as I believe the access rights apply to almost any open ground, and allow more activities such as cycling and camping, but not hunting or fishing.
 

Countryman

Native
Jun 26, 2013
1,652
74
North Dorset
The forestry commission is now subcontracting Stalking to local holders of DSC2 minimum for pretty high sums. Be prepared not to use lead, to prepare a risk assessment, hold a first aid qualification and prepare a case.

Certainly not just open to Joe public to shoot.
 

Dougster

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 13, 2005
5,254
238
The banks of the Deveron.
The forestry commission is now subcontracting Stalking to local holders of DSC2 minimum for pretty high sums. Be prepared not to use lead, to prepare a risk assessment, hold a first aid qualification and prepare a case.

Certainly not just open to Joe public to shoot.

I have yet to hear of anyone getting a FC tender. It all seems to go on approval of the Ranger.....
 

Bladeophile

Tenderfoot
Jul 23, 2013
96
0
Basingstoke UK
Can I add a non hunter's perspective if I may? I'm new to the bushcraft forum and very interested in hunting (I can't believe I just said that) and support everything that you do to keep the country way of life alive in the UK.
It wasn't always the case for me. I used to be quite anti-hunting and killing. I still am if just for the sake of killing without any purpose i.e controlling population, putting food on the table or perhaps a genuine survival situation.
Since my interest in bushcraft however, I've been exposed to many cheerful Americans on the internet who are zealously protecting the right to own and use guns for hunting and recreation while the spectre of president O stalks in the background. Most of them are such interesting and eccentric people you just cannot help but like them and admire their way of life, with all their apparent freedoms non-existent here in the UK.
If you like bushcraft you will be exposed to the hunting fishing trapping way of life because the two go hand in hand and are inseparable in many ways.
Thus the internet will put you in touch with mountain men in the Appalachians for instance, whose everyday way of life involves bushcraft, gun hunting, bow hunting, trapping, fishing etc etc. So you have these seemingly carefree Americans mainly to blame for my 180 U turn! God bless them.
Anyway thats me done. Keep up the good work in protecting the countryside and the country way of life - before it disappears altogether.

One final question. Is a pump action shotgun as good for hunting as the traditional type of guns. Saw a guy hunting with a Winchester in the UK.
 

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