How will bushcrafters deal with the x-ray lamp posts?

[Boosh]

I have been following this with interest on the news, as i do with all the issues surrounding Britain's Big Brother state, and i just wondered how long it will take for the first bushcrafter to be done with this new tool if it ends up being used?

Heres the article from the Sky News website.....

"X-ray cameras could be installed on lampposts on British streets to spot armed terrorists and other criminals, it has been claimed.

According to a leaked memo seen by The Sun, "detection of weapons and explosives will become easier" if the scheme drawn up by Home Office officials is adopted.

However, officials acknowledged it would be highly controversial as the cameras can "see" through clothing.


"The social acceptability of routine intrusive detection measures and the operational response required in the event of an alarm are likely to be limiting factors," the memo warned.

"Privacy is an issue because the machines see through clothing."

The Sun said the memo, dated January 17, was drawn up by the Home Office for the Prime Minister's working group on security crime and justice.


Seeing through clothing It noted some technologies used for airport security had already been used in police operations searching for drugs and weapons in nightclubs.

"These and other could be developed for a much more widespread use in public places," it said.

"Street furniture could routinely house detection systems that would indicate the likely presence of a gun, for example."

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "We don't comment on leaked documents".


Well if i walked past one of these with my gear on ready for an overnighter, they'd get me for a few things straight away!

If these are the same cameras used in airports, that means any knife, saw, axe etc in your pack will be picked up.

Get ready for a sudden spate of bushcrafter arrests as soon as these cams are installed, knowing our goverment we'll all be labelled as enemy combatants for having a knife and any article of clothing that bares a resemblence to forces gear!

Sad times indeed.

Boosh.

 

[Brendan]

I know, it's going to get pretty tough to fart soon without someone logging it somewhere!

Have a look at this link from The Guardian for some other things they have planned for us in our wonderful Free Country.

 

[Chopper]

I is gonna get me a lead lining for me Swanni :BlueTeamE

 

[Brendan]

Can you get plastic axes ?

 

[gregorach]

Nonsense. If you have a valid reason, you can carry all the sharps you like. Plus the news story is highly questionable - they're not "x-ray" cameras, for a start. If they were, you'd have a serious radiological issue. No, what they're talking about here is the new millimeter wave backscatter scanners. Problem is, they need skilled users, and they're currently rather expensive. Chances of widespread installation are pretty low, if you ask me. Just more fantasising from certain elements in the Home Office...

 

[nooky]

Probably more scare mongering by the press. It was probably one of those off the wall ideas that are thought up but are too prohibitive to actually feasibly work.

 

[Ogri the trog]

We just have to convince the Chav community to think it fashinable and a "laugh" to sew tinfoil cut-outs of guns and knives in their clothing - the system would grind to a halt under so many flaggings.
Perhaps it is an indication of how unsafe high streets are - and hence we're safer living in the woods!



Ogri the trog

 

[dave k]

Nonsense. If you have a valid reason, you can carry all the sharps you like. Plus the news story is highly questionable - they're not "x-ray" cameras, for a start. If they were, you'd have a serious radiological issue. No, what they're talking about here is the new millimeter wave backscatter scanners. Problem is, they need skilled users, and they're currently rather expensive. Chances of widespread installation are pretty low, if you ask me. Just more fantasising from certain elements in the Home Office...

I agree this is correct, but I hesitate to think how this would affect us in real life. I don't have to want to submit myself to an interrigation to justify to the police what my intention's may or may not be.

I know that there are police officers out there who would be difficult, and would have no hesistation in arresting me for trivial or non-existant changes either to keep up their arrest quota's, or to just cause me hasstle. I know that I have good reason and justification to carry sharps when appropriate. I know that if they did arrest me there would be a very good chance there would be no prosecution attempt made, but this doesn't alter the fact that I would have spent the last 4-5 hours being interrogated.

I'm afraid I lost confidence and respect for the police a long time ago

 

[gregorach]

Perhaps it is an indication of how unsafe high streets are - and hence we're safer living in the woods!

I'm not at all sure - I think our high streets are probably as safe, if not safer, than ever before. Personally, I think it's probably more of an indication of an unhealthy relationship between technology vendors and government ministers, combined with a foolish belief that complex social problems can be solved by technological "fixes". But we're veering dangerously close to the verbotten topic of politcs, so I'll leave it there...

 

[dave k]

Perhaps it is an indication of how unsafe high streets are - and hence we're safer living in the woods!

I don't agree with this. I don't see there being much more crime than, say, 10 years ago. Of course sections of criminal activities increase and decrease in time, that is a given. What is apparent nowdays is people in the Government are increasingly trying to tell me that I am unsafe, and I have the *fear* of being a victim of crime. They then can justify increasing their progressive reduction of our civil liberties...

Increasingly it seems the use of terrorisim is raising the threat to my life every year.. I do think the london bombings were atrocities, but if you look at the statistics, far more people get killed from cars, airplanes, smog, smoking, than *ever* got killed by terrorists.. yet people are not concerned about banning smoking or pollution, but are willing to be coerced into a servailance state where you have to justify all your action's to a government that has continually misled the public.. I suppose you pay your money and take your choice... (if only I could afford a peerage!)

Sorry if this sounds like a rant..

 

[Boosh]

Nonsense. If you have a valid reason, you can carry all the sharps you like

Fair one, but i would'nt say it's nonsense. I'd bet that 90% of this forum don't have a valid reason when they take knives, axes etc into the woods for bushcraft purposes, and unfortunately thats not a valid reason unles it's part of your work.

Whether it's a knife or a machete tucked away in your bakckpack, it's going to be hard getting a copper to be understanding about it. Maybe if he sees you in the wood doing a bit or carving or similar, but if you were to have it in the street whilst walking to the woods and you pass one of these scanners, they'd pick it up.

My cousin is a carpet fitter and was approached by a copper the other day because he has come from a job only two doors away, walked into Tesco's to get some lunch before going back to his carpeting job. The copper warned him as he still had his work knife on his belt and had'nt removed it prior to leaving the site of his work.

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see if this one transpires.

Boosh.

 

[gregorach]

I'd bet that 90% of this forum don't have a valid reason when they take knives, axes etc into the woods for bushcraft purposes, and unfortunately thats not a valid reason unles it's part of your work.

No, it does not have to be "part of your work", it merely has to be a "reasonable purpose" - work being one of several possible "reasonable purposes". Many members here have had similar encounters with police whilst heading to / from bushcraft activities without any difficulty. The point being that you can't leave your tools behind when you leave the wilds, like you can when you nip out of work to go to the shops.

There are several extensive threads on here about knife law, you might want to read them carefully.

 

[sandsnakes]

Its always interesting when something like this pops up in the press. People shout and scream and a few MP's get a bit of free press coverage. The thing is if you look in opposite direction they are usually trying to sneak a law, tax or restriction in behind your back. They have done this several times for vitamins, minerals and herbs. Many of the things we pick in the wild will shortly be made illegal to sell or consume.

Its not that they are out to get you, its the sad fact we have already been got! Many people say 'thay cant do that', sorry they already have. So ask your self why did they leak this loony memo, what was it try to camoflauge.


Sandsnakes-the-cynical :theyareon :tapedshut

 

[fiacha]

scary. Anyone read The Traveller by John Twelve Hawks ? (fiction )

He's based a novel on a future built around post 9/11 government plans to "protect" the population. looks like you're well on the way.

 

[bent-stick]

My cousin is a carpet fitter and was approached by a copper the other day because he has come from a job only two doors away, walked into Tesco's to get some lunch before going back to his carpeting job. The copper warned him as he still had his work knife on his belt and had'nt removed it prior to leaving the site of his work.

Boosh.

Exactly - warned him. Not arrested, not given an official caution. Both could have been on the cards if it was a fixed blade knife. The police know precisely who the law is aimed at. And the potential of having the law weakend by a few precedents in court where cases have failed.

As for the x-ray lampposts, they won't be really effective until fitted with automatic tasers to render potential perps harmless...

 

[Bushcraft4life]

I wish i could carry all the sharps i want. I regularly go over the woods opposite my house to practice some skills before a trip but i have to hide my knife. South east london= knife capital of the world. Means if you are caught even with a valid reason they come down on ya like a ton of bricks.

Life sucks

 

[Surrey Yeoman]

I'm afraid I lost confidence and respect for the police a long time ago

At the risk of taking this thread even more offline than it is already, can I ask why? Is it due to actual personal encounters, or just based on what you've read in the papers, or what a "mate of a mate" said happened "to a bloke he met down the pub?"

Just curious.........

Yeoman

 

[Mikey P]

Over-reaction to what appears to be an long-term options paper with some 'blue sky' thinking.

Who out there has a new-style passport? You do know that that has RFID in it, don't you? This means you don't even have to show a passport for someone to extract the information from it, just walk past a detector. You could be tracked all the way through an airport without even knowing it. What are you going to do? Refuse to have a passport and never leave the country? Carry it in an RF-screened pouch? Or look at this in a sensible, calm and pragmatic way?

Hmmm...I wonder sometimes whether I have logged onto a UK bushcraft site - or is this now a 'survivalist' site?

 

[dave k]

At the risk of taking this thread even more offline than it is already, can I ask why? Is it due to actual personal encounters, or just based on what you've read in the papers, or what a "mate of a mate" said happened "to a bloke he met down the pub?"

Just curious.........

Yeoman

It's personal experience I'm afraid... Last issue I had was when my ATM card was scammed at a cashpoint machine. I tried to phone up the police to report it, but they started saying they didn't think it was illegal to put a card-reader into a cashpoint and read people's card's.... Then he said since the card was used in Ireland I'd have to call up the Irish police to report the crime there, as they didn't want to report it in the UK because they would have to investiage it, and it had already happend and no-one was being hurt by this crime..
nice effort I thought..

I'm sure that there are a lot of ordinary police people who do a very good job - it's that when ever I get contact with police they seem to be the other type! I think one of the biggest abuse of police powers has been the terrorisim act in recient times - the police can arrest people under this act with only resonable suspicion of any minor crime. it's being used as a catch all to just arrest people which is plane wrong.. And all these problems with Control orders - basically the government can decide you're a problem, and you can have your liberty controlled completly without legal course or representation - a wonderfull free society!

I am a very big believer in Civil Liberties and I do like to keep ontop of this government's `new solution's` for today's problems, and frankly it scares me the amount of air-brained thinking that people in position's of power seem to have.

 

[WhichDoctor]

As said by others I'm shore this is just speculation and hype, but the idea that anyone in the government could think this mite be a good idea is scary enough.

I think this quote is getting more and more relevant unfortunately.

The news that they have nothing to fear is guaranteed to strike terror into the hearts of innocents everywhere.

-- (Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant)