How to encourage diversity in bushcraft

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Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
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We may not discriminate per se, it seems to be more of a question of what other societal barriers might be there that put certain minorities off. I think it has been established that income is one, and to my mind one way to tackle that is to discourage the idea that you have to have gucci kit. Also the notion that wilderness is necessary to practice. We used to have a mental health group renting a few contigous plots from our allotment association where amongst other things they did a little urban "bushcraft" That group ended because they ran out of funding, however the scouts rent those plots now.

It’s hard for me to write the right stuff but my understanding from various sources is that it’s this sort of challenge across lots of different groups and activities. Most of those would also not actively discriminate but it’s not as simple as that. There are some good podcasts out there they discuss it without being heavy handed about it.
 

TeeDee

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Nov 6, 2008
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That’s a loss regarding Woody girl, hope she comes back.
Always came across as a genuine person who made me smile as I’m sure she did you.

May I just say..The Topic title it’s self singles people out from the beginning.
Remember the Comment I wrote earlier about acceptance of who we are & respect for others.
This is what happens when tongues start wagging regarding race, sex & gender or disabilities, it’s inevitable.
In the simplest of form, just treat people as an individual regardless.
We all have one thing in common, the outdoors. so it doesn’t matter who or what we are, we’re all unique, with ideas & thoughts to share.
I hope it’s gave a pause for thought?
Good night & blessed be.


"In the simplest of form, just treat people as an individual regardless."

Yes I agree completely.

But unfortunately that isn't what happens if one for whatever reason ( road to hell is paved with good intentions ) the notion that you need/must have mixed representation and diversification in every field.

One can't force people to show interest into a hobby or field just because one is concerned it maybe too < insert race colour or gender > , especially if there are no obvious imposed restrictions barring them in the first place.
 
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TeeDee

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Nov 6, 2008
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Not a joke... a fact.
Obviously mr ed knows hes upset me, but instead of saying sorry, he just blocks me.
How mature.
Its doesn't matter that he thinks he said it in jest, sometimes what people say upsets others, no matter how its said, and if I do that I always say sorry, because I genuinely dont want to upset anyone, I dont say, oh it's just a bit of banter, get over it.
No wonder there are not many women on this site.
Mr ed doesn't have the grace to apologise, and and feels that I should just take a stupid remark on the chin and shut up about it.
I'm done here. I've not been reduced to tears for many years, but congrats everyone, it's happened.
I dont want to play the sympathy card, but I've gone through all this on my own for a year, isolating as much as I can, been ill several times, and ended up in hospital more than once, which was extremely scary.
I'm still dealing with the loss of my son, and partner alone with no support, and yes I'm feeling fragile right now.
I try very hard not to let things get on top of me, and stay cheerful and not ask for sympathy, and I'm not asking now. I know I'm not alone in having a rough time.
But I've just come to the end of my piece of string.
I used to enjoy this site, but I dont anymore.
So I will leave you all alone to be what you want to be without having to cope with someone who tried hard, but didn't make the cut.
Have fun. Goodbye.

WG -Mr Ed has no need to offer an apology.
 

Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
5,775
706
Aylesbury
stewartjlight-knives.com
And that 50 / 50 split tends to ignore the less than desirable jobs.

Construction site labourers.
Sewage workers.
Road Layers.
Dustbin men ( Sanitation Operatives )
Abattoir Workers.

Its either a case of:-

Equal Opportunities - you make YOUR choice and follow it accordingly

Or

Equal Outcomes - Some one ELSE makes the decision to fill some quota and you get placed into a role.
That’s an interesting point! You never hear calls for equal representation in some of those jobs!!
 
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TeeDee

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That’s an interesting point! You never hear calls for equal representation in some of those jobs!!


It ultimately comes down to ( and this applies to on both sides of the gender fence ) that if 'society' wants Equal Outcomes - you don't get to cherry pick when it applies.

It applies at EVERY position. EVERY level.
 
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TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
2,003
945
Vantaa, Finland
While talk has been about the UK situation just a quick comment about the Finnish one. When I go out to the closest national park the people I see there seems to be a good cross section of general population. People I see trekking in Lapland is that minus small kids. I have no idea about the "minorities". So as a first approximation diversity among native Finns is not a problem.
 

FerlasDave

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Jun 18, 2008
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While talk has been about the UK situation just a quick comment about the Finnish one. When I go out to the closest national park the people I see there seems to be a good cross section of general population. People I see trekking in Lapland is that minus small kids. I have no idea about the "minorities". So as a first approximation diversity among native Finns is not a problem.

Do you think the Finnish ethos regarding the outdoors rubs of onto those who have immigrated quite easily? Or do you have trouble with some abiding to your traditions?

How is the attitude towards nature taught? Especially to adults and people who have immigrated?
 

TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
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Do you think the Finnish ethos regarding the outdoors rubs of onto those who have immigrated quite easily? Or do you have trouble with some abiding to your traditions?

How is the attitude towards nature taught? Especially to adults and people who have immigrated?
A very good question and I don't know answers to either one. As a guess there is some trouble as some immigrants don't want to follow any local customs.

I have a feeling that attitude can't really be taught, it follows from other things. As a specific subject I don't think "nature awareness" is a subject generally taught anywhere, courses exist but one has to want to take one.
 
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TeeDee

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Seems strange for the Guardian to refer to something like the countryside as a ' No-Go-Zone ' , - that is surely a perception held by individuals themselves.


' From sourcing kit to building confidence, several initiatives are tackling ‘no-go zone’ of British countryside
 

Tengu

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Jan 10, 2006
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Oh, this is Grim.

Please, everyone read it, it will make you negative but I think we ought to do something.

And they spread the news that expensive kit is needed. Most progressive.
 
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Silverclaws2

Nomad
Dec 30, 2019
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Seems strange for the Guardian to refer to something like the countryside as a ' No-Go-Zone ' , - that is surely a perception held by individuals themselves.


' From sourcing kit to building confidence, several initiatives are tackling ‘no-go zone’ of British countryside
If you read it, you might find the 'no go zone' is a perception based upon how ethnic minorities have reported they feel in the British countryside.

For example ; But according to Mohammed Dhalech, the chair of Mosaic Outdoors, the main thing keeping people away is the nagging feeling they don’t quite belong. “I remember taking a group of multigenerational [minority ethnic] professionals out on a walk and I heard someone behind us say: ‘What are they doing here? They should be in London.’” Other people he has spoken to report feeling uncomfortable after noticing waiters seat them at a distance from other customers in country pubs and restaurants.

Where as to encouraging diversity in bushcraft I am firmly of the mind it starts with improving attitudes towards the countryside amongst the ethnic minorities and improving the attitudes of non ethnic minority population towards ethnic minorities in the British countryside. To think, the former may be achieved through the latter.
 
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Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
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Knowhere
Guardian readers (spits out his tea) It is ironic that it is poor working class people from the industrial centres of the North that opened up the countryside in the first place. Were they discouraged because they were out of place and not wanted by the country set with their fancy tweeds and grouse moors? Not a bit of it, they took direct action and we are all the beneficiaries of that. As for kit, my most comfortable walking boots came from a charity shop. When I was a youngster I used to hike in my everyday shoes, it was all I had. I think it is a good thing that ethnic minorities are organising their own groups to get out and about, because that is better than being told what to do by middle class well to do white folk drinking chardonnay on the patio in Hampstead.
 

Souledman

Full Member
Nov 14, 2020
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What a great coincidence that the guardian has come up with almost a direct answer to the OPs question and with actually speaking to some minorities...

of course it isn’t about the narrow bushcraft side of outdoor pursuits but is relevant nonetheless. If we want to give people the opportunity to share in our interest or think these other projects aren’t doing it right then maybe setting up similar is an answer. Frankly I’m surprised that there aren’t people who run courses doing this kind of outreach already (COVID impacts on these types of businesses aside). Maybe they are...or were
 
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Silverclaws2

Nomad
Dec 30, 2019
286
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Guardian readers (spits out his tea) It is ironic that it is poor working class people from the industrial centres of the North that opened up the countryside in the first place. Were they discouraged because they were out of place and not wanted by the country set with their fancy tweeds and grouse moors? Not a bit of it, they took direct action and we are all the beneficiaries of that. As for kit, my most comfortable walking boots came from a charity shop. When I was a youngster I used to hike in my everyday shoes, it was all I had. I think it is a good thing that ethnic minorities are organising their own groups to get out and about, because that is better than being told what to do by middle class well to do white folk drinking chardonnay on the patio in Hampstead.
I daresay if it were ethnic minorities that did that we would not be benefices of anything for it has been noted authority has always held differing attitudes towards different communities.
 

TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
2,003
945
Vantaa, Finland
So #1 son came to visit home, hmmm ... us. He did his masters thesis on integration of immigrants. In the data he had there were no direct questions on cultural hobby integration but some that were close. His comments:
- As buscraft is a voluntary hobby diversity itself has no inherent advantages or disadvantages.
- As it apparently mostly is not an organized activity "it" can include or exclude anyone it wants or just not care.
- Apparently it might not be a very effective way of integration, surprising things are or are not.
- What it might do is increase some kind of general understanding of culture both ways but as easily it might lead to confrontations of the type "at home we do it like this, these idiots know nothing as they do it like that". Apparently there are some precedents.

And as last: might be a half way interesting study subject.
 

henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
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Derby
How depressing indeed.
Is this not separation & preferential favouritism.
I for one am completely against it.
The outdoors are for all, not just for one group of people.
There are no answers when things like this go on &
I’m growing very tired & questioning by own morals & beliefs.
 
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