Help/advice. LEZ penalty charge.

[malley]

I live in Northumberland.
I am a part time/hobbyist musician.
I was invited to play a gig in Dalston last week. I got paid expenses (fuel costs) only.
Yesterday I received two penalty notices advising that I'd entered the Low Emission Zone. My van is 1999.

First was as I entered London second as we left afterwards to go to my friends house in Wimbledon. Second was ten minutes after midnight, so classed as another day. I know.

These are for a minimum of £250 each. Increasing to £750 each in 14 days.

I had no idea about this. That is cited as being an unacceptable ground for appeal.

It is my first time there in many years.

Any suggestions - other than pay the fine - appreciated.

I cannot afford to pay them.

Cheers.
Steve.

 

[bopdude]

Have you checked your vehicle reg ? This site has the link for it, LINK

Let us know what it says

 

[malley]

My van is 1999. They say 2002 is the cut off point. :-(

 

[Dogoak]

I haven't a scooby about this either, very rarely go into a major town let alone London or any other city but this post ignited my interest to check. Apparently my 1999 Hiace is not subject to it. Have you tried checking the reg number here...https://lowemissionzone.tfl.gov.uk/b/pb/lezComplianceProvideVRM.faces ?

 

[bobnewboy]

I'm on the outskirts of London and would never take a vehicle in (except maybe my motorcycle). I'm afraid that the London authorities have a very bad rep for being hard on people without a legal escape, so you may find that this becomes a baliff type issue if you dont get onto it immediately. Sorry fella.

 

[Gaudette]

Sad to say I don't give you much hope of getting off. The worst thing you can do is leave it I agree with the last post you must deal with it immediately.


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[malley]

Ok. Pretty grim outlook then.
Research seems to suggest that you should only receive a warning for the first offence. That you will be fined NEXT time. I shall pursue that line.

Immensely frustrating. I had no bloody idea!!

 

[drliamski]

What is your van used for as non commercial vehicles are exempt. Is it possibly a camper?

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[widu13]

It has to be registered as one if it is to make a difference.

 

[drliamski]

Indeed

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[bob_the_baker]

Sounds very iffy to me. There's no reason why you should be aware of some bizarre local byelaws in a city in the far corner of England. The onus is on them to make it abundantly clear, before you enter the zone, that you need to stop and take action. They also need to provide some facility, at that point, for you to take the correct action, a smart paystation where you can check and then register your vehicle. The fact that you remained oblivious to the LEZ until you got the fine suggests that they failed in their duty to clearly advertise the restrictions and actions required. If your with a union it might be worth making use of their legal advice facility, else try citizens advice.vl

 

[Mesquite]

The onus is on them to make it abundantly clear, before you enter the zone, that you need to stop and take action.

That's why you'll see these signs on every road leading into the LEZ

 

[Wayne]

The LEZ is clearly sign posted and covers the whole of the inner M25 pretty much. I have a VW T4 1999 which cannot enter the LEZ. You can pay the charge of £100 a day within 24 hours via the internet much like the congestion charge. If you visit the TFL website you can enter you registration and see if you vehicle is exempt. Mini buses and camper vans are sometimes exempt etc.

Very little chance of getting out of paying ignorance is unlikely to be accepted im afraid.

 

[malley]

The LEZ is clearly sign posted and covers the whole of the inner M25 pretty much. I have a VW T4 1999 which cannot enter the LEZ. You can pay the charge of £100 a day within 24 hours via the internet much like the congestion charge. If you visit the TFL website you can enter you registration and see if you vehicle is exempt. Mini buses and camper vans are sometimes exempt etc.

Very little chance of getting out of paying ignorance is unlikely to be accepted im afraid.

Yes. I've mentioned that earlier. They state that on all the websites. I get it.

The point is, to the unaware, even if I'd seen that sign that tells me nothing about what it actually means to enter the zone. I find that very frustrating. I do not keep myself up to date with London's bye-laws tbh. Clearly, there is an argument that I should have researched London traffic laws before departure. I did not.

Nor did I research York, Glasgow or Leeds. Why would I?

I understand that it is normal practice for a warning letter to be issued for the first offence. I will use that as a basis for an appeal. I will let you know how I get on.

I am fully up to speed with what the zone is now. I have familiarised myself with all the resources and explanations on TFL's website.

I was just hoping to find some positive evidence of a common sense approach to such circumstances.

Clearly there are no examples of successful appeals.

Who would flaunt such a law? Who in their right mind would enter a zone that costs £100 a day? Who would knowingly ignore that law and expect a £750 fine? Who would honestly think I'll ignore the charge and try and get away with it? These days?

A warning to out-of - towners seems the more reasonable approach.

 

[Wayne]

When I bought my T4. I thought I would be a perfect tool for teaching at events I do in London I'm not local to London. So it didn't occur to me that I couldn't take my trusty steed inside the m25. Fortunately a friend mentioned the LEZ so I looked it up. Sadly i
hsbe to used wife's car to transport my gear into London. I'd pay £20 but £100 is not worth it when I'm already working at cost.

 

[dewi]

Do you not remember selling your vehicle to that bloke a couple of weeks back?

I say that, but these days they're probably onto that sort of response and ask for proof that you cancelled insurance etc.

I used to travel a lot when working and you wouldn't believe how many times I got fined for things in London. £125 once for obeying a traffic wardens request. Appeal? Not in Westminster!

Problem is the authorities don't give a monkies whether or not you can afford it nowadays... the people who make these laws can easily afford to pay as they will no doubt reach into the bottomless taypayer-funded expenses pot, but the ordinary man... either pay the fine or enter the court/bailiff money-making racket. Debt collecting is a massive business and earns everyone involved (other than the person who owes the money) a small fortune.

 

[malley]

Yup. Agreed.

 

[widu13]

Sounds very iffy to me. There's no reason why you should be aware of some bizarre local byelaws in a city in the far corner of England. The onus is on them to make it abundantly clear, before you enter the zone, that you need to stop and take action. They also need to provide some facility, at that point, for you to take the correct action, a smart paystation where you can check and then register your vehicle. The fact that you remained oblivious to the LEZ until you got the fine suggests that they failed in their duty to clearly advertise the restrictions and actions required. If your with a union it might be worth making use of their legal advice facility, else try citizens advice.vl

Hi Bob, it doesn't help the OP but for your own piece of mind one of the very first thing to be taught to legal practitioners across professions and an underlying point of UK law (and most of Europe) is that Ignorantia juris non excusat (ignorance of the law is not a lawful defence). That squarely puts the onus on the individual to know or discover for example that there is a £1 fine for ignoring a direction given by a park keer in Torquay or indeed for not complying with the conditions of the LEZ.

It's been enshrined for many centuries so just saying you didn't know will not get you anywhere. TFL are renowned for being harsh and the unfortunate OP will have trouble escaping this one. Some of the research suggests that an frank and open letter MAY do the trick if read by the right person but the results seem to vary week to week. It's got to be worth a letter surely?

 

[malley]

Yup. Ignorance if the law is no excuse. Enshrined in our culture. Rightly so in most circumstances.

I will be submitting an honest and open appeal to their better judgements.

Worth a try.

I ha e not found anyone who has appealed successfully to date. That tells me a lot. An appeals process should yield SOME successes, surely?

Wish me luck!!

 

[drliamski]

Very best of luck... Maybe offer to pay the original fee rather than the fine? Also is your van used as a commercial vehicle?

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