Have a SGC, should I apply for a FAC?

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lottolearn

Full Member
Mar 18, 2013
13
0
Oxford
Hi all, I'd appreciate some feedback on this.

I've had a shotgun certificate for a couple of years and have been enjoying shooting clays regularly. I've just received permission to shoot rabbits and other vermin on a golf course nearby and have had a go at shooting crows with somebody with a bit of experience, which was great fun.

I'm thinking about possibly applying for a FAC as although I have some experience with sub 12ftlb air rifles, these wouldn't really give me enough range for shooting rabbits on the golf course.

As I already have permission to shoot and the course has already been cleared for other .22 FAC shooters, how complicated is applying for a FAC compared to a SGC? Also, in terms of flexibility for pest control and shooting rabbits for the pot, what type of calibres should I be considering?
 

artschool

Forager
Sep 14, 2014
111
0
chester
i have fac up to .375 H&H!

the biggest difference between the two is you must give good reason for the firearm. however if you have a permission with rabbits, that in itself is good reason.

the other difference is that you need a separate safe for ammunition and 2 references instead of one.

if i had my time again. i would be putting in for a 22lr and a deer calibre like a .243.
 
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British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
25,604
509
Mercia
Whole can of worms there. In terms of "should you" that's for you to decide. You must have good reason for everything held on FAC, if you have this, then of course.

Best calibres depends on target species. If you are after rabbit then .22rf or .17hmr are the most common choices. .17 shoots further with a flatter trajectory and hits harder with often large exit holes. .22rf suppresses better, does less damage and is cheaper.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,814
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Florida
I'll leave it to your countrymen to advise you on the FAC. As for calibers for rabbits for the pot and pest control I stick to a shotgun or a 22LR unless said pests are coyote or bigger/more vicious.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
8,780
1,727
McBride, BC
Here at 53N in the mountains, .22rimfire is entirely adequate for rabbits for the pot.
I do want to add a 4X scope with the parallax for 25-50yds. Also it collects more light
that the human eye so bunnies in the shade under trees/bushes are in fact easier to see.
 

Countryman

Full Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,619
53
North Dorset
BritRed is spot on.

.22LR is cheaper than .17HMR by a lot but the .17 is more versatile. Most forces now will consider it for Fox ( I disagree with this). It is however pretty much laser flat out to 120m. Rabbits will drop dead out to 200m if you put the crosshairs on the head.

I suspect the police FLO will want some kind of evidence of experience with a Firearm, knowledge of safety angles and backstops.

Lamping rabbits at night takes time to build up experience of range estimation.

Why not? You have good reason.


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Bowlander

Full Member
Nov 28, 2011
1,352
0
Forest of Bowland
I'd avoid the .17hmr as there have been a few issues with cartridges loaded without powder causing the bullet to lodge up the barrel. Its happened to 3 people I know with unpleasant consequences!
 

Countryman

Full Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,619
53
North Dorset
Bowlander. That's quite an old story about a batch of ammo from a few years ago.

IMHO if a shooter cannot identify a squib round and clear his rifle then he has no business being in the field.


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Countryman

Full Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,619
53
North Dorset
The ammo story was certainly 2-3 years ago now. The manufacturer covered several brands and were at pains to make redress both in replacement of ammo and repair of firearms.

I have been shooting .17 HMR for 3 years now. I have shot hundreds of rounds with no issue other than noticing a few split necks on some fired cases.

It is my go to rifle for rabbiting.


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lottolearn

Full Member
Mar 18, 2013
13
0
Oxford
Thanks for your input everybody. I'm going to phone my FEO to discusss if they are likely to place any mentoring restrictions on the granting of a .22LR or .17HMR.
 

Countryman

Full Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,619
53
North Dorset
I believe the recent amendments to guidance for police did away with
Mentoring but by all means investigate this with him.

Training through a local club or undertaking DSC1 will likely suffice.


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Thanks for your input everybody. I'm going to phone my FEO to discusss if they are likely to place any mentoring restrictions on the granting of a .22LR or .17HMR.


you should not get any mentor Conditions and when used they where supposed to be only on special occasion for Centre fire Calibres as are previous exp (only HO guidance mentions previous exp in larger cals and only as desirable it not law)

If you have good reason which you have you should have no problem as you already hold a SGC the FEO/system already knows of you

I would recommend you apply for both .22 Rimfire and .17 Rimfire as well as a moderator for each costs no more but will if you want to add another later as a variation

both have a place and different strengths for Shooting vermin etc in different conditions etc

ie 22 Rf can be fully silenced as you can get subsonic ammo 17HMR is supersonic only so still a loud crack as the bullet breaks the sound barrier even with a Moderator
17HMR is a high speed But frangible round so on impact will generally Fragment where as a 22LR is a solid heavy lump a lot slower so can Rik o'Shea Badly and travel a long way
22RF is legal in semi auto 17 is not
17 has a much longer range and is very very flat shooting than the 22 which can still be accurate out to a long way if you can range find very accurately

you dont have to rush out and buy both on grant

you will need to justify each for different reasons mine was .22 for Vermin and .17 for Fox both have AOLQ so can shoot anything with ether anyway you can also use that the 22 RF is for fully silenced Night shooting set up where as the 17 is for longer range Day shooting requiring different Sights etc


Fill out your Application I would consider redoing your SGC to run along side as its a lot cheaper if they do only and extra £10 not another £50 ( prices go up I believe 1st april)

as said you will need to add an other Locked Cabinet for the Ammo if you ahvent got a locking top box in your gun cabinet a £35 B&Q safe will do

you will also need to get a Written permission form filled in from the Golf course to validate your Good reason they will contact the Club and may need to Clear teh ground for you to shoot on your New closed ticket if it has not already been police cleared (Open ticket holders do not need police clearance to shoot a permission)
 
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Welshwizard

Forager
Aug 11, 2011
213
0
Abergavenny Wales
.22 rimfire is also available in WMR which although is a little more expensive to run than .22 short or long rounds does not ricochet like long or shorts it also has a lot more energy and hence more knock down power , .17 hmr has a very flat trajectory but is a more expensive round and also very loud (even with a moderator ) if your biggest ground game is rabbits then I would stick to one of the .22 calibres or even both and then opt for a .243 or 30-06 calibre for large game (min calibres for deer are .243 ) .17 hmr also does a lot of meat/carcase damage , it all depends on your grounds and quarry when it boils down to it .
A good rifle range/ club will give you more insight and you will gain valuable experience plus members and club will usually let you try their rifles , ammo purchased via the club is also a lot cheaper and most police feo,s will be able to contact the club and be reassured by what you have done , they usually like club membership for at least six months unless you have previous sect 1 rifle shooting , members will also help with any questions for application .
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,814
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Florida
.22 rimfire is also available in WMR which although is a little more expensive to run than .22 short or long rounds.....

.22 rimfire is indeed available in WMR. But if your goal is more power/range than .22 short or .22long then you might want to try .22 long rifle before moving up to magnums.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
8,780
1,727
McBride, BC
Go for every licence you can get for the current needs-be. We-all shoot .22LR for small game Let's face it = we are NOT shooting at the sky to bang bush rabbits.
I want food for the pot. I can shoot for sport (what the hello is that?) but I am far, far more interested in what I can do with it in my kitchen.
 

spandit

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 6, 2011
5,436
125
East Sussex, UK
Go for a reloadable centre-fire, like .223 or .17 Hornet - works out cheaper than buying 17HMR ammo & more versatile as you can change bullets to suit your needs, as well as taking small deer (with a .22CF) and being effective on foxes at higher ranges.
 

Countryman

Full Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,619
53
North Dorset
Massive difference between Police granting a Rimfire calibre for vermin and a .223 Centrefire.

Foxes are not classed as Vermin and I can see Thames Valley Police getting twitchy about a novice on a golf course with a rifle with a range of a couple of miles.


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