GTX or not GTX, that is the question?

[Martyn]

I've just had a pair of Meindl Borneo's...

...and am delighted with them. They are the plain jane leather version, not the goretex version (I think they are called Burma's), anyway, I was wondering what your preferences are and why?

Do the none-gtx fans, still prefer plain leather in a 4 season boot as well?

Just curious.

 

[Adi007]

I'm really undecided ... I hate hot feet but I also hate wet feet. I used to think that GTX was mostly a gimmick in boots till I came across the Lowa Combat boots and I changed my mind.

Bottom line though, it depends on how wet you are likely to get your feet, for how long, and how much care you take of your boots. Leather boots worked for years before GTX!

 

[Neil1]

I have Miendl Borneos, superb boots for year round use. If its that wet use Goretex sox. I had a bad experience with lined boots years back ( lost several toe-nails).
For long term wet conditions try vegan hiking boots (I think Highlander sell them) or Lundhags.But I suspect the Borneos will do just fine.
Neil

 

[Lithril]

I've been using the Meindl Burma for about 3 years now and I absolutely love them. Pretty much wear them when ever I'm out walking, I've used from everythng from Hellvellyn to Dartmoor. Don't find my feet get too hot, at least not in this country, I'll let you know about other countries when I get back from Oz in November.

 

[Martyn]

I'll tell you why I ask. First of, let me say my feet get hot in this country, except for maybe the bleakest winter days. In summer, my feet would be in bags of water if I had GTX boots. But next year, I'm off to somewhere cold. Not quite sure where exactly yet, possibly Alaska, think arctic tundra and you're on the right track. Nothing strenuous or adventurous, just a bit of sightseeing. I'm thinking my Borneo's might be OK, but I'm not sure. If I have to look at new boots, I'm wondering whether light, crampon rated, gtx lined might be a good choice.

 

[Martyn]

I hate hot feet but I also hate wet feet.

That amounts to the same thing for me Adi.

 

[alick]

If I wanted boots for 4 season use that - by definition - means significant walking in wet and snow, I'd buy leather.
If snow or extended wet weren't a big priority, I'd buy goretex (& suede or whatever) because it's lighter and cooler giving less sweaty feet in summer. I'd expect to get wet feet but it wouldn't be a big deal because I wouldn't be freezing them or doing multi-day wet.
If I wanted to climb with crampons in icy conditions or do day long trips on glaciers / icefields I'd buy plastic shell boots with a removable inner - though they're awful things that are useless for anything else. This is because they're warmer and more rigid for their weight.
If I wanted to do winter walks including day trips in snowy conditions and would need crampons in case of crossing icy slopes or frozen paths, I'd be confident that my 4 season leather boots would take traditional strap fiting, hinged 12 point crampons. I'd rember that a 1/2 or 3/4 shanked walking boot isn't stiff enough to take a modern rigid / lever action crampons though. That's not safe.
Whatever I was using, I'd buy a pair of gtx yeti gaiters that completely enclose the top of the boot and seal tight around it if I expected to walk much in wet or snow. These things are great and effectively up the rating of any boot. I've worn scarpa goretex boots with yeti's on winter day walks in the lakes and wales - even several hours in foot deep snow is fine provided you can dry out at the end of the day. They're marginal with crampons though, good enough to get you out of a jam but the spikes are likely to pull off a time or two.
On a three week trip around Norway, my 4 season leathers got so wet for so long that they were rotten by the time I got back to UK. Reached the point where I dropped them in the nearest waste bin and walked barefoot down High Street Kensington to find the nearest shoe shop !
On a two week safari trip to iceland where we were mainly travelling and doing 1/2 day walks from our jeep my wife and I wore scarpa boots - leather for her gtx for me - no problem.

Hope this helps,

 

[alick]

By the way - just went and read up about the meindl's and realised that the burma is a permanent gtx inner in a leather boot. Seems a very silly idea to me. Worst of both worlds, best of neither. Breathability must be pathetic :yikes:
In my last post when I say gtx I'm talking about fabric boots.

Your Borneo's look like a really nice boot Martyn :biggthump - you should have no problem with them for your planned trip. Take a look at the yeti gaiters though.

 

[tenbears10]

I'm with Alick. My thought has always been that a good leather boot doesn't need a gtx liner and as neil said a much more versitile set up is gtx socks for when you need. Gatiers are a must in heavy snow or even Hi leg boots will get soaking from the top down.

Fabric gtx boots are better in summer imo as they should be more breathable than just fabric or leather.

Bill

 

[Gary]

On our little jaunt across Islay with JeremyH I wore goretex lined boots, thinking it boggy and a good idea - however the rain was so heavy that water was penetrating my trousers and running down my legs into the boots. The goretex here stopped the water escaping and meant I needed to take off the boots to empty then and ring out my socks.

Leather or non goretex lined boots would have allowed the water some escape and if worn with sealskinz would have been better on that occasion.

Fortunately I carried spare socks and foot powder (like a good exsoldier) otherwise things might have gotten a little painful and in a real situation possibly deadly!

 

[TheViking]

Hi...

Leather.... It usually gives more support to the foot. A leather boot also breathes better than GTX. If you give it enough Werner's, it'll be waterproof enough to walk for hours in high, wet grass.

This summer when my dad and I were hiking in Sweden my our feet got wet the first day and nearly the rest of the trip, but it didn't bother me that much.
When we got to the first camp at afternoon, I just sat them to dry near the fire. BUT remember not to put it too close to the fire, cause the leather can crack! :shock:

 

[Brynglas]

I definitely prefer good quality leather boots which, if looked after properly, even in prolonged wet conditions will remain waterproof and breathe properly. I have a pair of the Lowa mountain combat boots which have a Gore Tex lining and I have to say are an excellent boot, however I'm not completely sure how effective the lining is as I keep the boots well proofed. I got these boots from work so I didn't have to part with any cash for them. Scarpa leatherboots fit my feet well and I've used scarpa deltas for years with absolutely no complaints. For winter climbing I'm still using leather four season boots which have seen me through several Scottish and alpine winter seasons again with no complaints.

I've never really got on with fabric/suede boots even good ones like KSB 3's and Bergaus storm boots , they're ok for just kicking about in but I've never been happy with the performance as hillwalking/trekking boots. Also leather is easy to look after and you can see when it starts to deteriorate, which isn't the case with a gore tex liner.

The best boots I've had for winter conditions when you dont want a totally stiff four season mountain boot are those made by Lundhags, I had a couple of pairs which I used as combat boots and they were fantastic, they were also really good for wet conditions Dartmoor, Scotland, Brecon Beacons etc. as the leg is quite high and they have a rubber foot. Penrith Survival is selling them I believe and I can defeinitely recommend these over a top end pair of GTX lined boots whether they're leather or fabric uppers.

Hope that this helps

 

[Martyn]

By the way - just went and read up about the meindl's and realised that the burma is a permanent gtx inner in a leather boot. Seems a very silly idea to me. Worst of both worlds, best of neither. Breathability must be pathetic :yikes:
In my last post when I say gtx I'm talking about fabric boots.

Your Borneo's look like a really nice boot Martyn :biggthump - you should have no problem with them for your planned trip. Take a look at the yeti gaiters though.

Thanks for the feedback guys. It seems that GTX isn't a huge favourite around here.

Alick, thanks for the info. I love these Borneo's, they are the most comfortable "out of the box" footwear, i've ever owned - with the possible exception of slippers.

But, they're B rated, which isn't suitable for crampons. In my planned trip, i expect to at least visit a glacier, though not spend any great time there and may also need to cross some icy areas. I was wondering if I could get away with the old style strap crampons on the Borneo's? What do you think?

 

[Lemoneyewash]

Got the unlined Meindl Nepal's and they're fine, so far in everything I've put them through but I bought a pair of grade 1+ GTX lined German Alpine Corp (sp??) boots from a surplus centre somewhere in N.Wales a couple of years ago which have been absolutely tremendous. The sole is definitely stiff enough to take a crampon.They cost me a bargain £60, were virtually unused and, I'm certain are made by Lowa. WELL worth a look at if you can find any I promise!!!
There are 'flexible' crampons available which may be suitable.

 

[Richie]

I found that Lowa Mountain boots are great for one day use any more than that and you will start suffering and evenually get immersion foot, unless you can dry your feet and boots each night.

I prefer for prongled periods the Lowa Super Camp which is the mountain boot without a GTX liner but instead a leather sock liner.

You can't beat a good well looked after pair of leather boots. :biggthump

 

[Martyn]

There are 'flexible' crampons available which may be suitable.

yeah, been looking around at a few of the flexible variety...

Stubai Trekking Universal
Troll T10
Grivel G10 New Classic

Opinions? I like the look of the grivel g10, but they're all so damned expensive.

 

[leon-1]

yeah, been looking around at a few of the flexible variety...

Stubai Trekking Universal
Troll T10
Grivel G10 New Classic

Opinions? I like the look of the grivel g10, but they're all so damned expensive.

I have been a fan of Grivel for years, but the Troll ones look interesting. This will not be much help because to be honest any of the three will do the job quite happily.

 

[alick]

Alick, ... Borneo's... they're B rated, which isn't suitable for crampons. In my planned trip, i expect to at least visit a glacier, though not spend any great time there and may also need to cross some icy areas. I was wondering if I could get away with the old style strap crampons on the Borneo's? What do you think?

Easy Martyn. I've got some crampons of the type you're thinking about. They adjust in length and width, and buckle over the boot with neoprene (no - not the wetsuit version ) straps. They're perfectly serviceable so I'll dig them out and you're welcome to borrow them. If you stamp around on a few old planks and try front pointing around a telegraph pole or something :yikes: that should tell us how much abuse is needed to make them pull off.

I expect your boots will be fine for what you describe and your recommendation's handy because my own scarpa fabric boots are about due for the bin.

Cheers

 

[Martyn]

Easy Martyn. I've got some crampons of the type you're thinking about. They adjust in length and width, and buckle over the boot with neoprene (no - not the wetsuit version ) straps. They're perfectly serviceable so I'll dig them out and you're welcome to borrow them. If you stamp around on a few old planks and try front pointing around a telegraph pole or something :yikes: that should tell us how much abuse is needed to make them pull off.

I expect your boots will be fine for what you describe and your recommendation's handy because my own scarpa fabric boots are about due for the bin.

Cheers

That sounds great Alick - send em over so I can play, I'll let you have em back in short order. Many thanks.

The Borneo's are a great boot, especially if you're a bit hobbit footed (broad) and I hope I can use em for my trip. They do flex which makes em comfy walkers, but maybe theyre just stiff enough to hold this sort of crampon.

Cheers Buddy. :biggthump

 

[bushblade]

By the way - just went and read up about the meindl's and realised that the burma is a permanent gtx inner in a leather boot. Seems a very silly idea to me. Worst of both worlds, best of neither. Breathability must be pathetic :yikes:
In my last post when I say gtx I'm talking about fabric boots.

Your Borneo's look like a really nice boot Martyn :biggthump - you should have no problem with them for your planned trip. Take a look at the yeti gaiters though.

In most cases fabric boots are no more breathable, there is so much more plastic and rubber between the layers of material that you don't see. These are in place to stiffen the boot where needed and protect the gore tex membrane from being punctured, and in most cases will have a rubber rand too. If you cut open a fabric boot, it will most likely have a plastic toe section, a plastic heal section, plastic liners under all metal parts (to stop the eyelets pulling out of the material) these then have a layer of rubber underneath to protect them puncturing the liner. All these bits of plastic and rubber are NON BREATHABLE so the whole boot together in some cases is less breathable than even a gore tex lined leather boot.