Getting Knotted

[Ogri the trog]

Hi All,
I'm up for a demonstration tonight of cord making and knot tying to our local Cadets.
First will be uses, materials and making a bit of natural cordage, comparison of breaking strains and so on.
Part two will be making the knots and loads of practice at a list of knots That I hope won't become too confusing for them.
I am comfortable tying the knots and I've done some research into materials and history - but what do you think I might have left out?

Any ideas....

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[gregorach]

A basic summary of the various types of knot and their uses (hitches, bends, etc) might be worthwhile before getting into the details of specific knots.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Thanks Gregorach,
I'll work it into the lesson plan.

Ogri the trog

 

[durulz]

Phew.
Buggered if I could do that.
I use just four knots, and they've always done well for me: reef knot, bowline, round turn with half-hitches and a quick release. Works for me.

 

[gzornenplat]

If you haven't already got this down, then the dangers might need a mention - not just the granny knot, but misuse (e.g. the reef knot capsizing into two half hitches - don't use it to tie two climbing ropes together!)

And maybe the Jug Sling, the Thief Knot, the Handcuff Knot - and how to completely disable someone with 6 inches of string - handcuff knot someone's middle fingers together around a pillar

Out of interest, what knots are on your list to teach?

Ian

 

[Ogri the trog]

Well, in reporting back, it didn't go nearly as well as I had hoped.
The group went, in terms of ability, from a budding climber to some very new newcomers who don't even tie their shoe laces.
I took the lead from them, asking what knots they had heard of, and demonstrated them and tried to get them to get into the frame of mind that knots are "made" rather than pulled tight at every stage. We did some basics of thumb knots, figure 8 & fig 8 loops, They started loosing interest at the reef knot and the bowline was well beyind them.

It sowed the seeds of some good future sessions though as I want to get them using "Evenk", "Taut hitch", adjustable guy hitch and so on. I feel I have lot of work to do on my delivery technique.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Guilty1]

Hi Ogri,
I sympathise!! I have had the same problem teaching knots to sea cadets (usually with velcro fastened trainers). Glazed eyes and nose picking as soon as knots are mentioned. I have found though that after one boating/ canoeing trip or a weekend of backwoods camping you can start to make inroads into their interest as they realise it might be easier to learn some knots than having to recover an escaping boat or have their shelter collapse again.
Keep at it!!!!

 

[Draven]

If you want a more receptive audience you could come teach me knot tying, I'm useless at it Not as bad as a friend I had when I was a kid though, who dropped me into the sea with a dodgy knot.

I was in the scouts when I was younger, but only for a little while - I don't recall doing a single "scouty" activity, it was more like a youth group in which people spent most of their time causing each other physical pain. Not how I wanted to spend my spare time... it seems to have gone downhill in some places.

 

[8thsinner]

I have tried to teach a few of these to younger kids too before and found the best way was to use examples in as many fields as possible, eg
taking a 2ft length of para cord, sheet bending all the inner strands together to make a longer cord.
Pair of boots with regular knot vs japanese variation which doubles the tension
Prusik knot attaching hammock to tree, or bandanna to small sticks etc

I don't know many young people much interested in cordage making though, shame really.

 

[Cobweb]

It's a shame it didn't go too well Ogri, you are a good teacher!
I think people need a reason nowadays to learn anything new, people are inherently lazy, perhaps a demo of the knot, what it could be used for, sending them off with a bit of cord so they can bugger up on their own and then re-teaching them the knot again might work?.

 

[sirex]

... or sit them on a chair under a bucket that's filling with water, and tell them they have to tie the two strings together that stop the bucket tipping onto them in about 30 seconds.


should work

 

[Steve M]

From working with kids quite a lot, a top tip for the future is to ensure that activities have meaning and possibly competition. The sense of achievement from simply hanging something from your string is far more than merely making it.

For instance, after briefly explaining the different between binding, twine, string and rope and get them hands on in teams making it and testing it to destruction against each other.

From here, you can teach them some knots, the first of which will be one to join cord or string together

Now get them to make something which requires some string and a couple of knots as well as some other stuff they are used to. Again, in groups, with a competition element.

If you get someone who knows them to split them into mixed ability groups, then the ones that know the knots can do that whilst the others do other things. This means you don't have to go over the same ground in teaching, and can just get on with the practical.

Ensure their supervising adults know the ropes (pun intended) so you can all orbit round helping.

By ensuring that your task needs a bit of binding, a bit of twine and a bit of string, you can have them making something real from early on. They won't think string is as much of an interesting product as we do. Get the task in incorporate skills they already have.

Things that are tested to great lengths and could potential fall apart are always good, especially if makers or supervisors (not you) could end up falling on their **** in the process.

Happy to help with teaching questions, it'll be payback for all the bushcraft ones I ask